52:06
At the 52:06 mark in the previous post, I heard for the first time from a Marine General that the US Marine Corps has a plan B if the F-35 becomes cost prohibitive.
This checked off the final box for me.
HQMC is full of jokers but they have been paying attention to the cost overruns for that airplane. They are looking at alternatives. They know its in trouble.
With all the silliness coming out of the Commandant's office, this is refreshing.
This plane will be canceled and now we hear that they're planning accordingly.
You think they would ever go for a Boeing version of the Gripen?
ReplyDeletei'm a traditionalist when it comes to Marine Corps equipment. we operate either Navy or Army gear and only in a few specific cases do we make our own. with that in mind i'd rather see a ruggedized Super Hornet and a harrier replacement than a Gripen buy....but a Gripen buy wouldn't piss me off.
DeleteThe Gripen is 45 Million+ USD. It is WAY TOO expensive for a trainer. And the SAAB CEO has expressly stated that the Gripen "will NEVER be a trainer jet"
DeleteIt would cheapen the Gripen's image.
Instead, Boeing is working on a clean sheet trainer design.
However, I will bet that the Lockheed T/A-50 wins the contract, as it has shown attack capability and it is supersonic.
They won't do a Gripen. The last foreign built combat plane the US ever bought was the British Canberra in the 50's.
ReplyDeletethe entire first run of Harriers were British built.
DeleteWell... One way or another, the T-38 replacement is going to based on a foreign design. The BAE Hawk, KAI T-50, Aermacchi M-346, or a "Gripen Lite".
DeleteOf the bunch, the Gripen is easily the combat capable, and a common platform for both training and front-line service makes a hell of a lot of sense. Attach the Boeing name and its pretty much a no-brainer.
The Gripen costs 45 million USD, WAY to much for a trainer.
DeleteBoeing is still working on a clean sheet design, and the SAAB CEO has expressly stated that a Gripen will never be a trainer.
Oops.... Me bad. Harrier has been around long enough that I forgot about the early run.
DeleteMajor Christopher J. Cannon, serving as an Operations Analyst in the Marine Corps Combat Development Command, proposed a Plan B in an article in the Marine Corps Gazette.
ReplyDelete"F–35B Needs a Plan B - Options to rising costs of the aircraft"
highlights (quotes):
--In December 2010 the Commandant was quoted as stating “there is not a plan B” to the F–35B program.
--This decision has become particularly troubling in regard to the high costs associated with the program, the program’s current status, and our United States Marine Corps reputation for plans and preparations.
--How do we describe the plan to develop the F–35B? Let’s try expensive to start. . .But procurement costs are less than half of the problem; life cycle costs are the lion’s share.
--So why are foreign militaries spending their money on the JSF? Simple, they are not.
--So what does an F–35B plan B look like? .. plan B must source replacement aircraft for our Marine attack squadrons (VMAs). . . facilitate the transition plan of ship- and shorebased F/A–18 model aircraft. . . include an airborne electronic attack (AEA) replacement capability
--We can do better with less money. The Marine Corps could start by departing from its recent history of leading edge, extremely risky acquisitions programs and focus on proven, efficient technologies. . .
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/f%E2%80%9335b-needs-plan-b
Major Cannon fired a dissenting round felt in the upper ranks -- and he didn't get boarded! Good for him.
been looking for that article. awesome find. i think its time to reprint it.
DeleteI couldn't find a date on it, but I didn't do a full search.
DeleteSol
DeleteThe author suggests taking the F22 production lines out of mothballs. How do you feel about this? I know several years ago you couldn't wait for the F35 to replace the F22, which back then had been responsible for some pilot fatalities. Has your view of the F22 changed any? In light of the recent advancements in stealth technology by the PLAF, should we be concerned that the F35 has been such a bust?
How about the SU-35? :-)
ReplyDeletevideo -- SU-35 at Paris Air Show 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVlmoNtcyhY
commonality with Navy and Army air is where i'd like to see us go in the future. the SU-35 with US engines and avionics would be a very formidable airplane...but the cost issue (to include training and supply and maintenance) makes me lean more toward the Super Hornet.
DeleteDon are you on drugs or something???
DeleteThe US military will NEVER buy / use a Russian jet.
Did you not see the happy face or are you on drugs or something? Huh David?
DeleteThe US military will NEVER buy / use a Russian jet? No shit Dick Tracy. Brilliant.
well said. i answered because i had thought the same a while ago...only seriously. can you imagine a SU-35 with F-22 engines and F-35 avionics? OH MY GOD!!!!
DeleteI just love to watch that plane fly (piloted by an expert no doubt) so I had to have a reason to post it. :-))
DeleteInstead of the F-22's F119 engines how about the F120's that were also tested? A combination turbofan/jet would be nice.
DeleteYep, 1 off hand remark from a conference member about a "what-if" scenario and the ENTIRE F-35 program is canceled.
ReplyDeleteWhatever will we tell the 9 partner nations, the Japanese, the S. Koreans, ect?
I ca play too " A senior American military official recently said "The Marine Corps is the Navy's police force and as long as I am President that is what it will remain. They have a propaganda machine that is almost equal to Stalin's." - See the USMC is about to be canceled.
do you think that a Marine General makes off hand remarks at CSIS? or any Think Tank for that matter. the issue is simple. COST.
Deletethe airplane is too damn expensive. its killing the Marine Corps budget. i can see it from my arm chair and obviously they're taking the threat seriously now.
you can downplay it with childish comparisons if you like but the fact remains.
for the first time since we began the F-35 drama, its become obvious that the high cost of the F-35 has caused a plan B to be formulated.
You do know who said that quote right?
DeleteA sitting PRESIDENT.
Don't worry, the marines would rather have 150,000 men with the best equipment than 200,000 men with old equipment.
yeah. a sitting President that got into office after a great man died Roosevelt, after the Marines fought that sitting President to get its force structure written into law and has since gone on to become an integral part of the US military.
Deleteso spare me your bullshit.
additionally the F-35 isn't worth a pile of horse shit on a bright, sunny day. i would rather have an airplane that is their when i need it, than a bunch of lame ass excuses from Pentagon brass and Lockheed Martin apologist.
I've never seen a B up close but here are photos of the infamous 50" fan (and aux inlets) from a China site (!!)
ReplyDeletehttp://chinadefense.blogspot.com/2012/10/us-new-photo-f-35bs-portholes.html
and the workings of the lift fan from AvWeek.
http://tinyurl.com/oz2yzg9
Reportedly the fan pretty much dictated the wide-body F-35 design. The door hinge and/or actuators is one of the plane's features that will be rebuilt in retrofit. There been many more problems revealed by development testing but all we've heard since Dr. Gilmore testified in June are fluffy PR releases from Lockheed & friends.
So anyhow canceling the B would leave AF and Navy with a big fat sluggish plane -- they're sure to say thanks for the maladies.
"Reportedly the fan pretty much dictated the wide-body F-35 design."
DeleteYou do not think the 51 inch wide afterburning turbofan might have a little to do with that? That 51 inches does not include the accessories, generators, pumps etc.
Yup, all together is huge. But the large cross section up front is a particular drag.
Delete