Saturday, January 31, 2015

Poland launches civilian military training.

Thanks to John for the info!

via RT
Poland plans to allow civilians to sign up for military training. With anti-Russian hysteria spreading like wildfire, Warsaw has rushed to step up its defense systems amid fears over the ongoing military conflict in neighboring eastern Ukraine.
"All citizens interested in taking part in military exercises will be able to sign up starting March 1" at regional recruitment centers, Polish Defense Minister Tomasz Siemoniak told reporters on Thursday.
Although Poland, Central Europe's largest country, ended conscription in 2008, Siemoniak said that some 38,000 reservists would be called up to take part in exercises in 2016, compared to the 12,000 this year. The ministry also plans to involve paramilitary groups in its new defense policy, AFP reported.
Since the crisis broke out in eastern Ukraine, Poland, a NATO member state, has been busy revamping its armed forces. Warsaw plans to spend 33 billion euros ($37 billion) over a decade on the overhaul.

"The chances of a peaceful resolution to the Ukrainian crisis are increasingly slim. Russia’s obvious goal is to block Ukraine's path toward Europe," Siemoniak said, adding that Russia's use of "military means" poses "a long-term threat to Europe."
Make no mistake about it.

This is a baby step toward civilian militarization.  Its voluntary now, but we all need to keep our ear to the ground for word that suddenly all men between the ages of 18 to 65 are required to report for physicals...or training.  Not necessarily induction into the military.

Why do I believe that?

Because while Russia can play the card of acting to protect its nationals in Ukraine, Poland can too.  What is the play here?  Is this a signal to the populace regarding a more active role in the fighting in Ukraine?  Will the support they're giving turn from being "humanitarian" to one involving sending combat units to fight?  Is this why the US Army moved to send trainers and advisors to Ukraine in order to prevent the Poles from doing so?

This thing in Ukraine can get worse.  It could spill over borders and infect all of Europe.  This crisis needs to be walked back with a quickness. 


  1. " Is this why the US Army moved to send trainers and advisors to Ukraine in order to prevent the Poles from doing so?"

    The poles have been doing the bidding of US state department for years.. and pole's public support for ukraine kiev coup goverment already documented everywhere.. it's covert support in fighting eastern ukraininan also highly suspected , whether it is polish 'volunteers' or 'PMC' or just 'polish vacationer'.

    Russia have to benefit in attacking Poland directly , so the current polish antagonistic stance toward russia only benefit USA and not poland..

    If ukraine got worse, the US vassals like poland will be used as ground troops ..

    1. negative. the Poles and 99.9% of all countries act in their own self interests. if your initial premise is wrong then why debate the rest of the statement?

    2. Be kind Sol, he's judging by the standards of his own country where people prostrate themselves to officials in power, and the upper echelon don't give a F about sending people to die. Or commit massacres.

      I still remember the Balibo 5 bunt.

    3. of course every country act on their self interest , just like how the maidan was a spontaneous demonstration from the people without any foreign influence *cough* like US senators waltzing around with the demonstrators..

      of course if one subscribe to 'american exceptionalism' doctrine , and think american people and goverment are the force of good and non-westerner always playing bad guys , then it is your choice..

      and who cares about Balibo 5 ? more people died because of soeharto's rise to power and it is covered up , because the victims are supposedly communist sympathizers... and yet america stayed quiet about the massacre of innocents right ?

    4. so if America intervenes in another nations affairs its wrong. if America doesn't its wrong. you just made yourself crystal clear and have found yourself teetering on the edge. where are you from anyway.

    5. He's Indonesian. And anti-US.

      I don't think Americans are saints and they can really makes some stupid decisions via mob mentality, but they are sure better than a lot of the others around. I rather my "allies" don't swallow me up out of hand after "helping" me.

    6. He also have personally something against Poles, with his moronic "polish mercenaries" or "polish mercenary pilot that shoot down MH-17"... he is just total idiot.

      I tell you, some of my countrymen must knock out some of his teethes in pas and he hate us for that. I need to buy a beer to that dude.

    7. do you assume every intervention are done because of some higher motive like kind ness and for freedom or liberty ? it is naive view from you sol, especially since you an ex marine , and yet you are totally subscribed to the doctrine of "american exceptionalism" in that you believed america always did the right thing for humanity, for freedom , for liberty..

      it is your right to believe anything you want, but it is rather disappointing to see you as american veteran never saw whats happening in the world from objective point of view.

      i guess you also think that vietnam debacle was an american effort to stop "communism" to spread in SEA.. a holy crusade of american sacrifice for greater good of the people of the world ?

    8. ah shas and owl the resident tag team trolls.. one full of russophobia and one just clueless the polish merc in east ukraine did ? the NAF cleaned their clock good and kicked them out.. nice try resorting to insult and violent threat just because of different opinion..

      typical internet bullies who used their fake military credentials .. i rest my case

    9. indonesian and anti US ? that's rather shallow stereotyping, but it is par for the course for your lack of knowledge of indonesia..

      i am anti militarism and agression. even those things done during indonesia's conflicts with its neighbours.. and i certainly do not blindly supported the troops blindly like most american did in their childish and naive understandting of patriotism..

      and why should one have to be pro US anyway ?

    10. And since my credentials are not fake, your case rests.

      6 feet underground.

      Wrong is wrong and you screwed up. Live with it. You're anti-US and whatever they do in your eyes is wrong, and of course you're a "moderate". All biased people say they are moderates. It's the rest that are too weak/extreme/whatever their stance is WRT yours.

      Tell me again how China vs India is an automatic win for China due to population? You obviously never took a look at a terrain map to see their area of engagement did you?

    11. Bunt, come on. At this point you have to realize that the only reason Sol lets you post here is becasue of the novelty factor of having a "village idiot" around.

    12. A blog "village idiot"... now this is the perfect description of him, well said Sarabvir, well said.

  2. As far as any 'forced civilian militarization' goes, agreed, it would be a sad development.

    As for Poland's Defence forces reportedly planning to increase reservist call-ups next year 2016 to participate in enhanced training and to include paramilitary groups in planned joint-training drills... it would seem to be a sensible and only prudent decision, especially given the truly recent uncertainty of Kremlin's intentions and capacity in seeking to re-write the post-CCCP-era European ideological landscape.

  3. The conflict in northeastern Ukraine has nothing to do with Poland far to the west, but war scares help any government consolidate power and raise its popularity, so they do it. Russia has no interest in western Ukraine; it's a basket case.

    1. Conscription raises popularity. Who would have thought that, wow, I so love politicians for making me crawl in the mud and forests...

    2. Hell No, We Won't Go.

      Canada, Here We Come!

    3. You really have no idea how Poland function... "rise it's popularity"... it's almost made my cry from laughing. :D Dude you have NO idea about Poles... no fraking idea. :D

    4. Shas, I don't think he understands how Humanity functions! He thinks that making people suffer makes a government popular. lol

    5. anyone who exposed truth and fact about poland will be trolled and insulted by resident tag team trolls.. typical goverment shill behaviour , counter the ttruth and facts with insult and attack the poster instead of his posts..

    6. anyone who exposed truth and fact about poland will be trolled and insulted by resident tag team trolls.. typical goverment shill behaviour , counter the ttruth and facts with insult and attack the poster instead of his posts..

    7. Government shill behaviour? How much is China paying you, considering how much ball carrying you're doing for them?

    8. "Truth and fact about Poland" said the moron from other side of globe... :D You are indeed a "Village Idiot" of this blog.

    9. Shas, I said exactly the same thing about him and Europe on a post that got deleted. I doubt he has even been anywhere near Europe. Not helped by the fact that he's selectively reading with an affirmation bias and it's no surprise his worldview is... skewed.

      Hey Sarabvir, you heard? China is all about peace and economy, so all the border incursions that India received are probably just figments of imaginations of overly bored border guards! lol

    10. Well, they had to give out a condesending diplomatic statement to us after Obama's visit. The funny thing being that the first country to give out such statements was usually Pakistan. Now its China stepping up to bat.

  4. On Russia and its possible involvement in any "Polish Situation", Russia is not USA. It understands its limitations a lot more than USA. Russia knows for a fact that while "a war on 2 fronts" maybe nice to say and a catchword around every Military Headquarters, its not all that its cracked out to be and must be used in the very desperate of circumstances. The Russians will not get entangled in any Polish Situation untill and unless they feel that the Ukrainian Situation is under control.

    What the Russians are doing is Logic. Logic minus Political correctness. And that has been a topic most of us have lost in the Western or Western Leaning world.

    Its good that the Poles are getting their bearings and preparing for any eventuality....but I am sure the top leadership of Poland and Russia know this fact.....1 war at a time.

    1. and how does the USA not understand its limitations? excuse me but that statement smacks of arrogance born from weakness. make no mistake about it. the US is capable of engaging in multiple regional conflicts at the same time. a capacity that no other nation on the planet is capable of. additionally war on two fronts wasn't just a catch phrase. if you study history, our forces were tailored and deployed to fight two major conflicts simultaneously. now. fight one and hold the other.

      but back to your statement. this is a post about Polish intentions, desires and capabilities.

      have a care. i have not taken a critical look at Indian defense forces and if i did what would i find? just because i have been pounding my Marine Corps, hammering the US Army, Air Force and Navy doesn't mean that i don't have love for them. its because i hold them to higher standards.

      do we want to talk about Indian capabilities, our trade with the country, whether its in our interests or not? do you really want me to do a body slam of India military, politics and social cultures?

    2. And everytime a nation is involved in a War on 2 Fronts is the very last resort. A situation where it has no option but to fight on 2 fronts.

      Russia has an option as regards Poland. Not to fight or should I say antagonize. Not until things on other fronts simmer down.

      And I am not pointing a finger at the US Solomon so relax. You dont have to Body Slam India because every time an Indian gets killed by Pakistan while we get "Praised for showing Maturity"......thats a Body Slam right there. Mumbai 26/11 happened. It happened under our watch and much to our consternation.....we did not do anything. The attack on our Parliament Happened, the Ratnuchak massacre of military families happened....and all we could do was sit on the border for 10 months under "Operation Parakram". Twice Solomon.....twice we held back invading Pakistan in Op.Parakram. And Op. Brasstacks was different animal all together.

      What I meant to say through the above posts was that Russia.....Unlike the USA.....will not step into another conflict not knowing when the previous one will end and how it will end. Thats all I meant to say. Not bad mouthing the USA here. Except on those situations where you directly support Pakistan.

    3. obama's visit to india recently was a disappointment for modi's goverment.. after all the fanfare and spotlight, obama didnt bring substansial to the table, except an insult to india's religions tolerance by his comments..

      china and russia bring substansial deals on the table with india, while obama as usual being sweet words.. As long US stilll locked with pakistan, it is useless for india to woo USA..

    4. Bunt, begone from my posts for your profile photo on Google is that of Barack Obama and you still criticize the guy whose face you have taken as your own. Anyone who went to see those links about the Indo-US joint exercises that I posted here saw your top comment on YouTube as well.....and that Glorious profile pic.

      Insulting India's religious tolerance? Did you not read my responce to your post a couple of days back where I told you to read Article 25 of our constitution before prostituting your self like a cheap hooker with false information?

      And since we are on the topic of religious tell me how Indonesia fares?
      Any Sunni majority country can be torpedoed with just one question- What are yout views on Ahmadiyaas?

  5. Quiet simple. Poland is on the list of the countries that can be invaded by Russia with the same justification as Ukraine and this is being openly advocated by some hardliners.

    1. what are you talking about? link please.

    2. You don't have to invade a country to stage targeted 'externals' which destroy road and rail chokes and possibly other (punitive, high replacement cost) infrastructure.

      Despite transfer of German Patriot batteries, Poland is not able to defend it's own airspace to any significant depth which means that both low level interdiction by the likes of Su-24/34 and (more likely) select missile strikes by Iskander, with the intention of cutting off Kiev's supply LOCs and back footing the Warsaw government from any further look-the-other-way allowance of 'NATO' (U.S.) assets to flow into the Ukraine from it's territory.

      That said, Putin is a wise man who will not engage in needless escalation if he doesn't have to. He is winning this SSC limited war and so long as NATO doesn't up the ante, neither will he. Instead using OODA looped diplomacy to constantly lead the morons in the Western Governments around by the nose.

      Russia has legitimate interests in the Ukraine because Russia wants to remain an independent nation state and not just another wannabe dependent state in the U.S. led rush to globalist elite rule. That cannot happen if food, minerals, industry and buffer space inherent to Ukrainian neutrality are lost to the West.

      The same can be said for China in desiring hegemony over her own hemisphere's adjacent sea-spaces without a greedy United States getting in their faces with this insanity of Pacific Rebalace/Pivot nonsense.

      It's time for the U.S. Joe Public citizenry to realize our nation's leadership and it's military prowess has been hijacked for a cult of power ideal that we have no business or moral interest in pursuing to the ruination of our reputation as a just nation.

      And when we get it through our heads that we are risking the loss of ALL RESPECT from the ROW, it will be time for a Constitutional Convention to do something about the mess our leadership has made of -this- country, long before we begin chomping at the bit to interfere in not-our-EU partner's problems.

      People who think otherwise need to do a comparative quant at the most basic of LERs: How many people have died in the Ukraine, thus far? Fifteen hundred? Twenty five hundred?

      Even if it was 15-25 /thousand/, it would be nothing compared to what we risk with a general war in Europe.

      And the Russians, who know all about bleeding in the /tens of millions/ under a totalitarian regimes' brutal dictatorship will not play that game if they don't have to. They are too close to a demographic crisis as is.

    3. "RISI believes that “the states of the post-Soviet space are not full subjects of international relations” but rather “the result of the Russian catastrophes of 1917 and 1991, which were provoked by the enemies of Russia led by the [United States]. Their sovereignty is thus a temporary phenomenon, something that does not deserve serious attention” and should be eliminated through their incorporation into a restored Russian Empire."

      That article alone wouldn't be worrisome but the narrative is more widespread.
      Now I don't consider NATO/EU countries being attacked by Russia to be likely to happen and Putin won't fight on two fronts and will be busy with Ukraine for a while but precautions are being taken.

    4. There are no Russian diaspora in Poland, no place for "green men" or "rebels" to artificially create problems like Russia did in Georgia or Ukraine and how it can do in Baltic States. We are in this good position that Russians think we don't like them (no too much from truth) and they don't settle here... so, no problem with that.

    5. Preface to say I'm a European; and I find M&S seems to be a very confused individual.

      Why would ukraine be anymore 'lost to Russia' by signing a trade agreement with the EU? It would seem Ukraine is now much more lost now to Russia since it has effectively instigated the largest war on Ukrainian soil since WWII. And Russia has violated treaties where it guaranteed non aggression and the borders of Ukraine in the process. All basically only so that Russia could make ukraine a puppet, a colony, and not a sovereign state. If Russia deserves sovereignty then so does ukraine. Ask yourself why Ukrainians would ever trust Russia again and not start to develop a Poland complex?

      Why does M&S claim vaguely that Russia is required to dominate ukraine in order to exist? Where has a military threat to Russia's security grown anywhere since 1990 other than in the Russian Far East? This seems ludicrous and unreasonable. Comparable to hitlers rantings about the threats from Czechoslovakia and Poland.

      Russia does face challenges to its existence. But Russia's principle problems are entirely internal. It has a corrupt political and economic system, a demographic crisis, and is overly reliant on exporting gas and crude oil and thus is vulnerable and weak economically. We in Europe see Russia's actions not as justified; but explainable by its own Failures and weaknesses. It is largely because Russians don't see a way they can correct these issues to make themselves a more competitive world power that they are turning to old fashion conquest and annexation in desperation.

      Unfortunately those are not problems we can fix, but nor we cannot allow Russia to take out its frustration on ukraine in the meantime. This would be a double mistake that would only embolden more Russian aggression and erode the credibility of european deterrence.

      As for China; they seem obsessed with restoring their idea of what the regional order was during the tang or Han dynasties. Which is about 1000 years older and thus relatively more insane than the regional order Russia envisions for itself. The problem with both these? They involve subjugating their neighbors who have no ideological interest in their nationalist imperial agendas. These countries are pursuing things essentially identical/comparable to if the European countries tried to reestablish their colonial empires...

      The US, whether you believe in its ideological basis or not, is at least reasonably believed to be more constrained by its domestic public perceptions and principles it claims to uphold. Also the inherent diversity of the US really makes it a more natural ally for any country threatened by a more conventional nation state neighbor.

    6. Don't worry Alar, most of us skip his TLDR posts. Lots of jargon which makes it look that he might know what he is talking about, but dig a bit deeper and you'll find it's hollow.

  6. Why dont they just form civilian 'auxiliaries' or 'militias'? This is rather interesting.

    1. Governments the world over fear patriotic militias as the direct proof that their 'protection' is not needed inherent to a local defense force which may prove very hard to disestablish.

      By making it an exclusive club, you have to play by the rules to join up and get appropriate (modern ATGW like Javelin) training. Once it's official, it's also classifiable which means the extent to which it is publicized is entirely within the Polish Government's purview, not the press nor the defense groups.

      Truth be told, Poland is a full up NATO partner with Western Weapons and Western reputation on the line, they are NOT surrounded by hostile parties which means they have a definite set of defense options as logistical assurance that doesn't require the 'total force' approach to mobilizing a nation of military imbeciles to a Dad's Army condition of Home/National Guard duties.

      It is far more likely that this is dog wagging as Poland's 'fear' of Russian actions in the Ukraine justifies the forward presence of Western forces basing in to their country within the mind's eye of average Pole's interpretation of matters. "Well, we were afraid first so now that the Americans are here, it's not a provocative act as a potential logistical shortcut to backing of the Kiev government's desire to run West."

      Russia will NOT allow the Ukraine out of it's SOI without a major war including nuclear strikes. Getting Europe to do a Highland Charge into the teeth of the stupids that pushing those buttons involves begins by convincing them to convince themselves that it's in their interests.

      And people who are encouraged to fear will make initially questionable defensive decisions that rapidly become aggressive ones.

    2. There are idea of recreate the National Defense units, but for now only an idea.

  7. Gentleman's... I dare to say this news is FAKE. Not to surprised... it is from RT.

    But for real, it was a surprise to me reading this "news" as I did not heard about that "interview" or "ideas" anywhere, on both professional sites, official sites or news sites. Nothing, I have no idea from where they get that... no source in article, nothing. Let me say this again... this "news" from RT DO NOT EXIST IN POLISH SOURCES. You will not find anything about it, Siemioniak did not speak with press in Thursday, he was on the gov meeting about proposition of amendment of defense law.

    This is FAKE news.


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