I posted yesterday that the idea of using LPD's as mini-LHD's has merit. Well my friends Leesa and Marcase were a bit skeptical.
Fair enough.
But the main area of disagreement dealt with the limited space for aviation and in particular the limited areas for aviation maintenance.
My rebuttal comes in the form of what Singapore is doing with their LPD. Below you'll see a sales brochure (yeah I know a Sales Brochure) but the point is this...there is plenty of space...on the San Antonio class the space is evident and on the older LSD's and LPD's the space has been made available with the use of removable hangars.
If we're going to do distributed operations. If we're going to have mini-ARGs then this is something that must be done.
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Sol, I have long thought the RSN Endurance class has a good mixture capabilities. (I read that brochure about a year ago!). The big plus I see is a flexible deck for mulitple missions.
ReplyDeleteHow about cancelling LPD26 and buying two or more of these ships? Ahh but NAVSEA will say NIH~
BTW I was on USS New York and yes she the av M&R hangar, and has internal space, but not cargo compartmentation and limited internal cargo hanlding to wet well and NO landing craft in davits and no real cargo crane for a lot more $$$. My conclusion is RSN is more flexivle and affordable.
I did not mean to dump on your LPD/LSD as part of mini-ARG just wanted to be sure the had the right capabilities.
I forgot to add the Endurance has a much better weapons suite too. Better design than LSD or LPD17.
ReplyDeletei've never been on a San Antonio Class LPD so i'll definitely take your word on the weapons fit and aviation spaces...but is it still too late to make those minor corrections to make them more effective?
ReplyDeleteremember we're only talking about small/minor operations...anything that takes more than a couple of companies of Marines will require the Navy to sortie ships to the area (to include our big deck amphibs) along with the associated command/control and additional aviation facilities.
Well if you agree with Bob Work's "fixing the boxes" theory, yes LPD17 can be fixed but I retort - WHY?
ReplyDeleteThe ships are being built in a failing shipyard.
The cost to modify will further inflate the LOD17 acq costs.
IF one believes all we hear about a different scale and scope of Marine amphib ops, then one wouuld assume a smaller ship platform would be desirable?
And, I would always advise buying an existing designg to be built in a US shipyard (cuts costs and lead time)
Basically we are in agreement that older LPDs and LSDs can be modified, but why not get something really different into the mix?
Hey, no fair; you're throwing one of my favourite ships back in my face! ;)
ReplyDeleteIf you play the RSS Endurance, then I raise you a Seafighter. As a complement to an LPD-17 in a mini-ARG they might just do. They could even include a mini-ramp for Predator-type UAV launches.
http://military.discovery.com/interactives/arsenal/seafighter/seafighter.html
Yes there are issues with the LPD-17, but I daresay those are construction/shipyard issues, and not necessarily design flaws - in time the San Antonios may make a sterling come-back.
The USN will be sorting out the LPD17s for years to come. $$$ wasted on poorly built ships is like money down a rat hole! STOP buying them - cancel LPD26 (Murtha ugh) and buy something else.
ReplyDeleteBTW if you search New Wars you will find our Warboats.org concept for weaponizing the Seafighter. That having been said, one has to ask one self does your mini-ARG need a gun/missile boat, or does it need more logistic capablity t in the form of connector spots and cargo capacity. I would say the later two are more important shortages.
Sol anyone who has worked in a shipyard knows that ANY change order is much more costly than doing it right to begin with. Some yards plan on making profits from change orders.
ReplyDeleteThe advantage of using an existing ship design is that one buys it, modifies and then tells the yard to build to it. Something NGSB hasn't/can't do anymore.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/military-photos-videos/singapore-navy-10602/
ReplyDelete(i) The RSS Endurance, two Super Puma helicopters and boarding teams is currently deployed for counter-piracy activities in the Gulf of Aden, on 18 Jun 2010, under under the ambit of the multinational Combined Task Force (CTF) 151. Below are links to pictures of RSS Endurance at the Gulf of Aden as part of CTF-151.
As you can see from the first picture, RSN has also equipped these ships with a deck mounted miniguns and further in the background the 25mm Rafael Typhoon.
(ii) The RSS Endeavour recently concluded a visit to Ambon, Indonesia for a socio-civic programme. About 200 RSN personnel joined the TNI AL and provided social assistance, primary health and dental care to Ambon residents. As part of the programme, a RSN surgical team also treated patients on board the RSN's Landing Ship Tank RSS Endeavour and on shore.