Sunday, November 13, 2011

US Navy/Marines set to buy British GR9's!

via Defense News.
WASHINGTON and LONDON - Britain has agreed to sell all of its 74 decommissioned Harrier jump jets, along with engines and spare parts, to the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps - a move expected to help the Marines operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters....


"I don't think it will be costly to rip out the Brit systems" and replace them with Marine gear, said Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier.
Nordeen noted that the British GR 9 and 9As are similar in configuration to the Marines' AV-8B night attack version, which make up about a third of U.S. Harriers. The British planes also are night planes dedicated to air-ground attack, he said, and while both types carry Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) sensors, neither is fitted with a multimode radar such as the APG-65 carried by U.S. AV-8B+ models.
The absence of the big radar, Nordeen said, makes the GR 9A and AV-8Bs "a better-performing plane. Weighing less, it's more of a hot rod."
This is beyond good news but is it signalling something?

What I mean is this...these airplanes are going to replace F/A-18D's.  Those planes are part of the rotation to the carriers...does this mean that advance planning is going on to lower the number of big deck aircraft carriers?  Just a thought.   Correction.  F/A-18D's don't deploy on carriers (thanks for the correction LouG).  So what's the deal?  LouG points out that Fast FAC is about to take a serious hit because these are the planes that perform that role.  My next thought is that with the exception of the F/A-18A/C, the USMC will be an almost all STOVL force.  What's going to take the place of the F/A-18D in the Fast FAC role?  I have no idea but its going to be mean a serious change in the Ground Combat Elements tactics.  In the assault the Marine Corps usually keeps its artillery on the march relying on its jets to provide the airborne artillery...if you remember the Marine General in charge of the assault into Kuwait implored his pilots to go after Iraqi artillery...he said the grunts could handle the tanks...he just wanted them to take out the artillery...will the Harrier be able to perform Fast FAC????

Sidenote:

You just have to know the Brits are beyond pissed at this news...we're getting their jets for fire sale prices...Thanks Think Defence and the British people!

UPDATE:

LouG brought an observation on the purchase of these aircraft to take the place of the F/A-18D's and I misunderstood his statement.  Consider this a public apology.  In the seat experience...been there done that experience...operational experience is always appreciated.

10 comments :

  1. i think so, i mean our need for large super carriers are lessening, its expensive to deploy and while they are power projection abilities, the things the navy needs arent supercarriers for the time being but anti-sub warfare, destroyers, and putting money into the LCS (which i cringe to type). we can keep the carriers battle worthy for years and keep sailors trained to use them but not having them deploy on the rate they have unless needed.

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  2. Good news I just hope its not a Trojan horse

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  3. The F/A-18Ds do not deploy to carriers. Only USMC F/A-18As and Cs do. The big limitation of a single seat aircraft filling the role of an F/A-18D is the lack of a WSO to do the Forward Air Controller Airborne (FAC-A) mission in a high threat environment. That is a very hard mission for a single seat pilot to perform.

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  4. are you sure? oh and a second thing...everyone is aware of the F/A-18D's use as a fast forward air control platform. you're bringing nothing new to the table with that statement. but i will verify your statement that D's don't deploy on carriers.

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  5. But its a good point. A fac-a is a huge thing one reason why I love attack helos. I'm hoping someone doesn't try to use this purchase as a excusse for taking f35b's numbed down

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  6. I am sorry you feel I am not bringing anything new, but until you try to control aircraft, the mark, suppression, and timing while avoiding rocks at low level due to a "simulated" high threat environment (I have never done real FAC(A) high or low threat since I was a single seat guy), you cannot appreciate how much the WSO does for you in a FAC(A) mission. It is very hard to fill that mission with a single seat aircraft. I am just saying I would not want to do it, especially in a high threat environment.

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  7. now THAT is something new. actual in the seat experience is always appreciated.

    but isn't the "situational" awareness that comes with the F-35 suppose to render WSO obsolete?

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  8. I believe that is the concept. The sensor fusion of the F-35B is supposed to be able to pass the information needed to CAS aircraft without all the stubby pencil work that a current FAC (A) has to do. I also believe the high threat is getting too hot for just tactics to minimize. An LO aircraft will be needed in order to find and attack the future threat.

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  9. glad you brought that up...a couple of questions because this part has been hotly debated over at aviation week (stand by cause' i'll probably be posting your statements as a separate post)....

    if the F-35B isn't able to conduct fast FAC work then how does it get done? the only two seat planes will be the F/A-18F's.

    the current crop of high endurance battlefield UAV's aren't LO...does that mean they'll be vulnerable on modern battlefields (yeah its a goofy question but setting you up for the next one)...

    if only LO aircraft can survive the modern battlefield (which I believe) then what does that mean for our use of attack helicopters?

    will this threat to close air support aircraft remain after air superiority is attained?

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  10. Sol, No need to apologize. Love your Blog. I check it daily. Keep up the great work.
    Semper Fi and Happy Birthday.
    LouG

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