Wednesday, June 27, 2012

No Knock Raids at the wrong location. What would you do?

You're a law abiding citizen.

You mind your business, do your best to not to break the law and you pay your taxes.

What do you do when the Police make a mistake and raid your house --- its their mistake, they've simply jumbled the address but what are you to do?  What about the real possibility that its just gang bangers that are simulated the police?

What do you do?

Lets let that hang for a minute.  Gabe over at Warrior Talk had an article up that addressed this issue.  I invite you to read it for yourself but check out this tidbit.
A SWAT team is like a military unit. You can moan all you want about the militarization of the police and all of that but your tears will not change a thing. Get used to that theme, BTW. When I was on SWAT our view is that "We will always win....even if we have to burn down your entire house by bombing it....we will win". Losing is not an option.  That again is reality....to expect less once the event kicks off is simply stupid.  Period. 
I can see Mr. Bubba Bumpfire now, beating his chest and grabbing his Tapcoe'd SKS, and snarling that he has rights and no SWATdogs are gonna take him down.  Good luck Bubba....Indy law or no Indy law...with that attitude I see you on the deck hog tied...or with a chest full of bullets. Your choice.
Not fair? Get over fair...I deal in reality friend. The reality is that you and your M4 or Custom AK are no match for ten trained guys, working in unison, and coming at a time of their choosing, to take you down. Notice that I have not even gotten into the "right or wrong" discussion.  Why not? Because at that moment in time, it is not relevant.  
Like I said.  Read the whole thing.  But while you're reading it, I want to point out a couple of things.

--Gangs and other crimminals have forced themselves into houses posing as law enforcement officers.  The results have been mixed but lets just say that it didn't end well for the homeowners.
--I laugh when the guy in the article talks about a SWAT team being like a military unit.  FAR FROM IT~!  They can wear the same gear, even drive MRAPs on US roads but they aren't trained to assault through to the objective even in the face of fire.  They aren't built that way.  Additionally, I've had the pleasure to train with several big city Police and Sheriff's depts in S. California and I can tell you this.  When faced with fire from crimminals, the first response is always to retreat and contain the situation.  Not to assault through.  That's why terrorist will cause much blood shed when they hit our shores one day.  Police are not trained to deal with even small numbers of infantry trained individuals.  Check Mumbai for a primer.

But let me climb off my soap box.  Check out this tidbit from Say Uncle's site about a police raid on the wrong house.
 A Minneapolis police SWAT team kicked in the wrong door yesterday during an early morning raid, prompting the man of the house to grab his gun and open fire on the officers who entered the house.“He took out his shotgun and he said if they are bad guys I’ll shoot, I’ll scare them away,” Dao Khang, the brother of the homeowner, Vang Khang, tells the Star Tribune. “He fired first, he told me it was two shots.”Dao Khang says his brother was trying to protect his wife and six children. No one from the family was hit during the exchange of gunfire. Vang hit two officers, but the Pioneer Press says they were protected by ballistic vests and helmets.“I must’ve heard over 20 or 30 shots, I swear, it was scary,” Ruth Hayes, the family’s next-door neighbor, tells WCCO-TV. “It was like 30 SWAT guys out here … it was crazy it was just like havoc.”
Again read the whole thing.  Quite honestly I put that their to confirm to the doubters police SWAT action upon resistance (if you provide them the means to retreat...important caveat!).

But one more story for your reading pleasure.
 Fred Skinner was eating a piece of toast when police from three different agencies burst through his front door with guns drawn, put the 76-year-old in handcuffs, and began ransacking his house in search of drugs. Minutes later, one of the officers noticed a piece of mail on Skinner’s table. The name on it didn’t match the name for the suspected drug dealer the officers were after. The officers asked Skinner if the name on the mail was his. When Skinner said yes, the officer shouted “Wrong house,” and the entire raid team headed out the way they’d come, without apologizing or explaining themselves. They were, according to a department spokesperson, in too much of a rush to get next door, where their suspect was supposedly located.
The Finger Lakes Drug Task Force that conducted the raid is made up of three different departments—The  Cayuga County Sheriff’s Office, the Auburn Police Department, and the Rochester Police Department—meaning the cops screwed up in triplicate. Yet nearly two weeks after the March 13 raid, when the Citizen Local News got wind of the story, the police were still refusing to admit they’d made a mistake:
Again.  Read it all.  But the question that is left unanswered is this.

What would you do?

NOTE:  This issue stems from the Indiana law that allows force against Police Officers.  Research it for yourself but I think that this law is a breath of fresh air.

UPDATE 1:  I'm sure I'll have to add more updates to this post.  But let me be clear.  I AM NOT ANTI- LAW ENFORCEMENT.   But I am a realist and I don't forget.  A Marine was killed in front of his wife in Arizona because the police raided his home.  Mistakes happen and people die.  Is it better to be a victim of that mistake and have the police apologize to your relatives or is it better to do what comes naturally and resist, have them reset and get it cleared up?  The choice is yours but because I have decided not to be a victim doesn't mean that I don't respect or worse that I hate law enforcement.

6 comments :

  1. Never meet a swat team that can do what a fireteam (army or marine) does. Just not trained or conditioned to do it. Not saying that 10 guys arnt going to win, but im pretty sure its going to be painful.

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    1. totally agree. they're neither equipped physically or mentally to do the job the way a military unit does whether they like it or not. that's just being honest.

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  2. This is an interesting topic. I've often wondered what your criminal liability is in a case where you resist LE in a situation like that. I'd be interested to hear from any lawyers who might read the blog.

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    1. great question. repelling an illegal entry into your house by law enforcement ... and lets be clear. if they hit the wrong house then they've committed in essence an illegal act, would normally spell doom. does the human factor (and cops are human) negate the error? does a persons right of self defense stop if the actor is a cop? how does it all break down? Rodney King got his ass kicked and in my opinion it was justified up to a point. it obviously got out of hand but up to a point they were justified.

      but take that same situation and lets say he was going the speed limit, hadn't broken any laws and was sober. if the cops pulled him over and started whipping his ass would he have been within his rights to defend himself?

      the law isn't clear (at least in my mind) and the Indiana law would seem to add some clarity to the issue.

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  3. I'm not sure about the Rodney King situation, but if SWAT Teams are as high-speed as they seem to think they are, they can make sure to hit the right fucking house, or risk getting legally shot at.

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