....the program is not affordable given likely Marine Corps procurement budgets. The procurement and operations/maintenance costs of this vehicle are onerous.—James F. Amos, 35th Commandant of the Marine Corps
You would think that the above statement applied to the F-35....and it does. But in this case Amos was talking about the EFV.
2010-2011 were decisive years for the Marine Corps.
But lets play a game and imagine what the Marine Corps would look like today...if Gates did more than play lip service to procurement reform by whacking a few US Army and Marine Corps programs. What would the Marine Corps look like if the F-35 was canned too.
We would have the EFV...simplified.
If the F-35 was canned along with the EFV, I believe the Marine Corps would have accepted a proposal by General Dynamics to build a simplified version of the EFV. It would not be a planning vehicle but its mobility and protection on land would have been top notch.
We would be cutting far fewer Infantry Battalions.
The Marine Corps provides 1/3 (I believe don't quote me on that...the number is impressive) of the nations ground combat power. In particular it provides formidable infantry. Today we're cutting Infantry Battalions at an alarming rate, while expecting Companies to do their job. Thank you F-35.
We would be flying F/A-18E/F/G's.
We would have immediately flexed into the Super Hornet as an interim jet bringing the cost of that airplane down even more, giving us an electronic attack option (a supreme option and possible game changer) and provide seamless integration with Navy Carrier Air Wings.
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Options for a tilt wing gunship would have been fully explored.
I dislike the MV-22 for its cost. Planners should dislike it because its jumbling the escort package for it. It flies too fast to be escorted by the AH-1Z, yet its not quite fast enough to cruise comfortably with Harriers (this is guesswork on my part....I could be wrong but don't think so). Bell Helicopters BAT, work they did for the US Army's light helicopter program, would have gotten a second look and would have (if adopted) lessened the need for a STOVL jet fighter.
Summation.
2010-2011 was a year of decision for the Marine Corps and instead of doing the hard thing and re-evaluating where we were going with procurement we pushed ahead.
...Hey diddle straight up the middle, hey diddle straight up the middle....
Even if the EFV simplified wasn't a planning vehicle, it still would have had better water speed than the AAV. 5 to 6 mph even makes a big difference. Doing away with all the transformer panels and the machinery required to move them on the bottom of the vehicle and rolling that weight into upgraded belly armor would have closed up the vehicles only real protection gap. This was probably all suggested though and of course rejected. Wishful thinking that the plans are still on the shelf for a future Commandant to dust off and run with probably.
ReplyDeletespot on. hydrodynamics. we could have done this but the Commandant dithered and showed what a pitiful leader he is. INDECISIVE and DECEITFUL.
DeleteThat is not true non planing EFV is a dead duck you can not simplify it into something usefull ,non planing speeds are almost impossible to improve here 1 mph more speed needs ither a huge engine or much better hydrodynamics.
DeleteNon planing EFV would also mean you could skip the huge engine that takes a lot of room so you are better of with a brand new vehicle , old AAV is actually the most hydrodynamic of all designs ,you could improve the hydrodynamics further with a hydropneumatic suspension that would enable the vehicle to raise or lower the track to be raised to be flush with the hull. That would gain you maybe 1 mph. but more is not possible without going to planning hulls.
Honestly i would ither go for an existing off the shelf vehicle like Havoc ,SuperAv etc or develop a new vehicle based on the AAV concept.
you guys are joking right? without the hydraulics the vehicle will become lighter. without the need to plane the engine would be smaller which would additionally lighten the vehicle. nothing excessive about having an IFV for Marine operations.
Deletebesides. the reality is that most people wanted the EFV to die more than i want the F-35 taken down to the river and held under. General Dynamics dithered and responded slowly to the reality that the program was in trouble. thats a GD and USMC probably.
you know. acting with a sense of urgency and all that jazz.
e-mails have been sent to PEO Land and General Dynamics. i need the real story on the simplified EFV.
Deleteeverything here is pure conjecture.
stand by for the facts. not more scuttle butt.
As you said vehicle would be come lighter and have much more internal space and you would have no need for the huge box it is now (unless you fill space freed with 5 more marines) ,so you would end up with 100% new hull that would be considerably smaller.
DeleteI hope they reply but as a naval engineer i can tell you for a fact that non planing EFV version would have hard time bringing any more on water preformance than AAV ,in reality it woud probably use much more power to match the AAV on water preformance as the EFV hull is a BOX with hydrodinamics of a brick. ,which is no problem when planing(you can plane any flat surface) but huge problem at displacment speeds.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8xiJ7zzjT98/TausQkCe_eI/AAAAAAAAAAc/ZWSiJ4tnr_Y/s400/TableLKTourism.jpg
MV-22 attack?
ReplyDeleteWhat about a more simple solution like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_X3
Top speed 255 kn
What about some Longbows with such tractor propellers?
KISS!!!
The Marine Corps may have really missed an opportunity with the cancellation of the EFV. I believe the vehicle may have a provided a significant maneuver advantage. But 20-22 million a copy - way to much. I read somewhere that the U.S. Army wanted to keep the cost of the GCV between 9-11 million. But before the program was cancelled last year the cost had risen to the high teens. Hmm. Maybe the JHSV will fill the amphibious role for the EFV, off-loading a company of MPCs.
ReplyDelete