via The Norman Transcript.
One thing I've noticed since the issue of police militarization hit hard (right after Ferguson when the news media finally noticed SWAT Teams looking like a Marine Corps Rifle Squad) is that law enforcement has really begun pushing the "rescue vehicle" meme.
What I hadn't read or heard is the idea that police actually thought that they might face IEDs.
It is definitely time to try get a hold of a few of those alerts that DHS sends to local PDs with regard to potential threats....if Capt Gibson actually believes that he could face IEDs in Norman, Oklahoma then things are worse than I thought.
Capt. Todd Gibson presented information about armored rescue vehicles to the Citizens Public Safety Oversight Committee last week to talk about just that. The vehicle would be used for transporting police, fire, medics or transport individuals through hostile areas.I have a web alert that hits articles that cover armored vehicles and every night I get bombarded with articles of police depts seeking to/or buy/ing MRAPs.
"This piece of equipment would allow us to get into active shooter areas. It would allow us to get into IED areas, if they were to occur on a game day," he said. "Anywhere you have large concentrations of people, you have large concerns that bad people can do bad things."
OU football home games bring about 80,000 plus people into the city, he said.
While there is a current stigma that comes along with an armored vehicle, such as the militarization of police departments, Gibson said the vehicle the department is looking at is more like a Ford F-550 Super Duty pickup or armored ambulance.
"One thing that it is not, and I stress this, NOT; it is not a tank. It has no offensive capabilities," he said. "It's clearly a rescue vehicle."
Both Oklahoma City and Edmond have armored rescue vehicles and the vehicles are often found in airports or used in construction. Gibson said the vehicles are nothing new, they're just advanced.
"It's nothing new, nothing crazy, not a weapon, not a tank. It's simply preparation," he said. "By failing to prepare we are preparing to fail."
Chief Keith Humphrey was offered a Medium Range Anti Tank (MRAT) for a price much cheaper than an armored rescue vehicle would cost, Gibson said, but declined it because he didn't believe it fit our community needs.
One thing I've noticed since the issue of police militarization hit hard (right after Ferguson when the news media finally noticed SWAT Teams looking like a Marine Corps Rifle Squad) is that law enforcement has really begun pushing the "rescue vehicle" meme.
What I hadn't read or heard is the idea that police actually thought that they might face IEDs.
It is definitely time to try get a hold of a few of those alerts that DHS sends to local PDs with regard to potential threats....if Capt Gibson actually believes that he could face IEDs in Norman, Oklahoma then things are worse than I thought.
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/10/17/2014101701403.html
ReplyDeleteIts just words
ReplyDeleteWhy do they need mraps to enter active shooter situations? Plan on driving it through the second floor geography lecture hall?
There will probably be a requirement forthcoming for buildings to have ramps and wide hallways to keep justifying the purchase of these things.
DeleteYes, IEDs are a huge concern. In some of the trainings I've been through they have started incorporating them into the training. I'll admit I sucked with them. Give me a person with a gun any day verses an IED. In most all active shooter situations since Columbine there have been IEDs. The main reason why is they want the higher kill count. Also Beslan is the templet that the intel guys feel the terrorist will use when they finally make their next big attack here.
ReplyDeleteI get that big places with a ton of people sounds like a great terror target, but I still believe if they hit a school like they did there it would be so much more effective. There is a school in almost every town and a parents worst fear is losing a child.
Oh and we were just told ISIS wants to target our families as well as military families.
Also incase you haven't heard Ferguson protesters stepped it up since EBOLA was taking them out of the news. Now they are protesting outside officers homes.
"There is a school in almost every town"
DeleteAnd almost every town has multiple schools (elementary, middle, high school, etc.). If multiple places were struck simultaneously resources could be stretched thin right from the start.
Tony
DeleteBut a MRAP would be of almost no use at a Beslan type situation.
Bombs are going to be inside, where the MRAP cant go.
At best, it will get people from the siege lines to the entry point
A MRAP will be far less useful than a plan.
Mike if you live out in the county and have very small cities or towns one city may house all the schools.
DeleteYes they would be stretched. In a middle of nowhere schools you would also have to look at coordinatining with multiple local pds and the sheriff. The one thing that 9-11 did was get the Feds to tie some of the grants tgen give to agencies for them to go to plain speak/ no codes or signals so if something happens we are not all using different jargon. Also there is a standerized active shooter response being taught that was developed by a small swat team in texas. As long as small agencies send their guys to the free training then everyone can more or less have the same basic training.
TrT
Yes, the MRAP will only help traveling to and from an event. I would add in a few of the school shootings bombs were placed in the parkinglots where most kids are drilled to go to incase of an emergency. We have been lucky so far that none went off. Also the MRAP could get into an outdoor active shooter event to rescue someone who has been shot and get them to a place emts can work on them.
And strictly for such legitimate purposes, every major city, and every county, might have need of precisely one, and in the rare metropolii like NYFC, Chicongo, or L.A., perhaps as many as three or four, for the entire far-flung megalopolis.
ReplyDeleteTotal number need by the average BFE PD, pop. 317, not counting horses and chickens: zero.
Ever.
LAPD would have wet their pants at having one for the NoHo Bank Robbery, with a dozen downed officers and numerous wounded civilians needing evac under automatic weapons fire.
And if they want to claim "no offensive capability", no problem: remove the turrets, weld the roof hatches and side-facing gunports closed, and stop putting armed motherf*****s in uniform on top with sniper rifles, @$$holes!
Do that, and I'll believe them.
Otherwise, this is just more bullshit for the boobs.
Aesop these "turrets" you speak of do they have machine guns or a cannon in them? Ill answer that for you and its no so really that turret is just another bit of bullet stopping protection. What it does get used for is throwing a hard line phone into a home or business for negotiations and simple over watch. Oh and you can use the roof hatches to escape if needed. Now for the offensive gun ports. Pardon my ignorance, but I thought gun ports on armored carriers was in the event they every had to fight out of an ambush. Remember the officers inside still have to justify their use of force. its not like they can roll up and blast away at everything around them.
DeleteOh and where else would you like the motherf*****s in uniform with a rifle???? They will be there so do you want them better hidden or there for people to think " oh crap if I throw this brick at them that guy might shoot me." So now that idiot doesnt throw the brick and no .one gets hurt
Horseshit, Tony.
DeleteIf you take away the ability to mount machine guns and AGLs, you take away the temptation. And if you aren't using them for anything like that, you don't need the turret. QED
Hardline phones have been thrown into locations for decades without a hip-pocket tank to do the job, so that excuse is also bullshit.
"Simple overwatch" is an offensive use, not a "rescue" op. Your agenda is showing.
You want to leave a small escape hatch? Fine. Take out the turret mount and supports, and put in a simple escape hatch.
Fighting out of an ambush? That's what the reverse gear is for. That's another Agenda Fail.
Total number of justifications of Use Of Force that have resulted in criminal prosecutions in the last decade US-wide? About zero. Including Boston, Ferguson, Miamai cops doing a Polish firing squad on an unarmed passenger, and NYFC cops spraying half a dozen bystanders with bullets to hit one suspect. Based on that, they shouldn't just weld up the gun ports, they should weld plate over the windows too. The worst thing to do is hand the police an offensive armored vehicle with the ability to shoot in all directions in a crowd, because based purely on past behavior, they will roll up and blast away at everything around them.
And I'd like the mother***** in uniform with a rifle someplace else than rolling up on a crowd in an armored combat vehicle, if you're going to call it a "rescue" vehicle.
It either is such, or it isn't.
Clearly you missed that part of English 101.
So you're left trying to justify APC-cum-tank, without coming to Jesus, and admitting that "rescue" is so much happy horseshit.
Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you...
Aesop from what you wrote it seems your pissed more officers have not been put on trial for use of force. Remember it's not the police or da who decide if an officer gets put in trial it's a grand jury, normal everyday people.
DeleteYa think??
DeleteNoetheless, our judicial failings don't translate to any argument that police need an APC.
They abuse and misuse every toy and tool given to them, as always.
The solution here is to preclude that, or take away the toys, just like with all children.
When you see MG turrets and gunports on ambulances, try again.
Until then, either they de-wat the MRAPs, or they don't need them in the first place.
whats with all these IED threat projection in american cities by these police force ? are they projecting massive civilian unrest in american cities in the next decade or so ? against a total uprising by civilians, even the MRAPs wont last long in urban setting , that if the dissident american get serious on resisting the police..
ReplyDeleteI guess none of you have ever heard of this?
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_University_of_Oklahoma_bombing
1. Are the police searching for that fugitive shooter using MRAPS?
ReplyDelete2. Why Not?
3. Back in the 60's our town Civil Defense and police got a DUKW for river rescues, we had more flood then and the bridges were relics of the 30's.
4. The little town west of us has a population of about 2,000 they have four Hummvees.
an old Military ambulance vehicle and a big crew cab dodge 4 x 4.
Along with 12 police cars.
They do not have a jail in town.
The Police Station is housed in two long job site trailers, the City Hall is in an old bank building purchased for that reason.