Talk about something that just fucking sucked in such a short span of time. They did win though. And they learned a lot that saved lives later (hard to believe when you read some of the casualty lists of other landings after that). Eddie Albert (of Green Acres fame) from his bio... "He was awarded the Bronze Star with Combat "V" for his actions during the invasion of Tarawa in November 1943, when, as the pilot of a U.S. Coast Guard landing craft, he rescued 47 Marines who were stranded offshore (and supervised the rescue of 30 others), while under heavy enemy machine-gun fire."
I worked with a sailor who was a cook on a ship at Tarawa, chilling tales from outside the FEBA he had! They would bring back wounded and dead Marines to the ship for treatment and burial, the temperatures meant bodies had to be buried ASAP from the ship and an at sea burial took place, He said at night standing on the rail watching the battle ashore the sailors looked down into the water and the bodies, buried without enough weight to hold them down floated up to the surface in their white shrouds and mattress covers like ghosts. He said when the wind was blowing toward his ship you could smell the rotting flesh of the dead on the beach. Tarawa was at the time I was a Marine the yardstick of what the Marine Corps mission trained to fight. That and Pelilui. The landings went to shit so fast at the line of departure some units never hooked up and made a fight inside their assigned beaches much less their parent units and many units simply vanish entirely before getting feet dry. Hell on earth. Eddie Albert saved a lot of Marines that battle.
Could the current USMC (2014) take the Tarawa Atoll assuming they are facing the same determined enemy ? Or Iwo Jima, can the modern marines take iwo jima without taking massive losses like the WW2 marines ? if i remember correctly even the vietnam era marines (which is saying they are combat experienced) got mauled when they tried to assault Koh Tang island, defended by cambodian soldiers who used only small arms..
Yes, The Marines could take both Koh tang and Tarawa, the weapons and organization is better, during Tarawa there was a will to take the island despite all losses, Koh Tang had the gear but lacked the will, that it happened at all is probably because it happened faster than politician's who had already lost one war in their minds did not get to stop it first. Koh Tang had no prior inetl, ECM or ELINT, there were no proper maps nor coordinated fire support and follow up forces, no Armor, no Amtrac and no arty, it was Ad Hoc from the get go. Koh Tang should have had ANGLICO and TAC Air involved which they did not due to politics not wanting to land a larger footprint than thought needed in a retreat. The Tonkin gulf incident was the start of this war through piracy by Vietnamese Pirates attacking shipping, it ended with Cambodian pirates doing the same thing. People died and they got their asses kicked both times. Tarawa should have gotten better Tac Air and Naval gunfire close. Tarawa today would be the recipient of several deep penetrating bunker busters, several FAE, and a MOAB. The reef would be breached with large demolition bombs and several pathways for LCVP/AAV would be cleared. Riot control and CS gas would be used for those bunkers not breached burned and buried. ECM and ELINT would have shut down their comm and allowed every aspect of the Japanese 3C known and targeted. Combat engineer vehicles would have turned the place into a manicured and level grave yard for Japanese Naval Landing party personnel and no prisoners would have been able to live. Tarawa today would be a walk over and piss on the other side. With the will to do the job and guts on the political side Koh Tang would be a walk over also. It is something to note that the largest casualties incurred in one action during the Galvanic ops was by the United States Navy when a large ship was torpedoed USS Liscomb bay at 687 KIA which represented 30% of all the casualties from this battle. No ships were lost during Koh Tank and the casualties were well below the 1696 KIA, 2101 WIA and those MIA. Koh Tang was 15 KIA, 50 WIA, 23 killed in a helo crash and three missing. What were the Marine casualties taking any battle in Iraq? Afghanistan? recently? Yet those places were taken and only given up by useless glad handing sack of shit politicians who will piss away a victory faster than they can spill the blood of our Marines to take and hold it. Yes, The Marine corps of today could take Tarawa and Koh Tang faster and better. OOHRaa and Semper Fidelis.
A Fact just for shits and giggles the Vietnam war was won four times by the United States military wise. In 1965 when a Landing took place at Da Nang. In 1968-69 after the PAVN/VC debacle of Tet. In 1972 after the Easter Offensive during Linebacker I. In 1973 After Linebacker II. The reason the war went the way it did was because the politicians lacked the will, guts and bravery to deliver a knock out blow by invading the North above the DMZ after each action listed above brought the PAVN to it's knees. During Linebacker I and II the PAVN ran out of missiles, rockets and ammo to defend their bases, airfields ports and cities. Their Armor, infantry, air force and arty were destroyed. After Tet the VC was destroyed in detail and the PAVN had to wait till 1973 to gain strength to mount another attack. Each time the US politician's held back from destroying any build up by PAVN, each time they went back to negotiating a peace instead of winning the war. Each time instead of building up US forces in the area they reduced them and instituted RoE that was detrimental to winning. In the last battles there were six carrier battle groups with assets in the gulf of Tonkin and when they sailed away they were intact. Never judge a military performance or call a win or loss by the forces when the true losers were the Politician's and main stream media which were bigger enemies than any North Vietnamese Military formation. No guts no glory no will and no win. A Glad handing sack of shit politician of any streak democrat, republican or libertarian will cut your throat and leave you to die alone every fucking time.
Talk about something that just fucking sucked in such a short span of time. They did win though. And they learned a lot that saved lives later (hard to believe when you read some of the casualty lists of other landings after that). Eddie Albert (of Green Acres fame) from his bio... "He was awarded the Bronze Star with Combat "V" for his actions during the invasion of Tarawa in November 1943, when, as the pilot of a U.S. Coast Guard landing craft, he rescued 47 Marines who were stranded offshore (and supervised the rescue of 30 others), while under heavy enemy machine-gun fire."
ReplyDeleteI worked with a sailor who was a cook on a ship at Tarawa, chilling tales from outside the FEBA he had!
ReplyDeleteThey would bring back wounded and dead Marines to the ship for treatment and burial, the temperatures meant bodies had to be buried ASAP from the ship and an at sea burial took place, He said at night standing on the rail watching the battle ashore the sailors looked down into the water and the bodies, buried without enough weight to hold them down floated up to the surface in their white shrouds and mattress covers like ghosts.
He said when the wind was blowing toward his ship you could smell the rotting flesh of the dead on the beach.
Tarawa was at the time I was a Marine the yardstick of what the Marine Corps mission trained to fight. That and Pelilui.
The landings went to shit so fast at the line of departure some units never hooked up and made a fight inside their assigned beaches much less their parent units and many units simply vanish entirely before getting feet dry.
Hell on earth.
Eddie Albert saved a lot of Marines that battle.
Could the current USMC (2014) take the Tarawa Atoll assuming they are facing the same determined enemy ? Or Iwo Jima, can the modern marines take iwo jima without taking massive losses like the WW2 marines ? if i remember correctly even the vietnam era marines (which is saying they are combat experienced) got mauled when they tried to assault Koh Tang island, defended by cambodian soldiers who used only small arms..
ReplyDeleteYes, The Marines could take both Koh tang and Tarawa, the weapons and organization is better, during Tarawa there was a will to take the island despite all losses, Koh Tang had the gear but lacked the will, that it happened at all is probably because it happened faster than politician's who had already lost one war in their minds did not get to stop it first. Koh Tang had no prior inetl, ECM or ELINT, there were no proper maps nor coordinated fire support and follow up forces, no Armor, no Amtrac and no arty, it was Ad Hoc from the get go.
DeleteKoh Tang should have had ANGLICO and TAC Air involved which they did not due to politics not wanting to land a larger footprint than thought needed in a retreat.
The Tonkin gulf incident was the start of this war through piracy by Vietnamese Pirates attacking shipping, it ended with Cambodian pirates doing the same thing. People died and they got their asses kicked both times.
Tarawa should have gotten better Tac Air and Naval gunfire close.
Tarawa today would be the recipient of several deep penetrating bunker busters, several FAE, and a MOAB. The reef would be breached with large demolition bombs and several pathways for LCVP/AAV would be cleared.
Riot control and CS gas would be used for those bunkers not breached burned and buried.
ECM and ELINT would have shut down their comm and allowed every aspect of the Japanese 3C known and targeted.
Combat engineer vehicles would have turned the place into a manicured and level grave yard for Japanese Naval Landing party personnel and no prisoners would have been able to live.
Tarawa today would be a walk over and piss on the other side.
With the will to do the job and guts on the political side Koh Tang would be a walk over also.
It is something to note that the largest casualties incurred in one action during the Galvanic ops was by the United States Navy when a large ship was torpedoed USS Liscomb bay at 687 KIA which represented 30% of all the casualties from this battle.
No ships were lost during Koh Tank and the casualties were well below the 1696 KIA, 2101 WIA and those MIA.
Koh Tang was 15 KIA, 50 WIA, 23 killed in a helo crash and three missing.
What were the Marine casualties taking any battle in Iraq? Afghanistan? recently?
Yet those places were taken and only given up by useless glad handing sack of shit politicians who will piss away a victory faster than they can spill the blood of our Marines to take and hold it.
Yes, The Marine corps of today could take Tarawa and Koh Tang faster and better.
OOHRaa and Semper Fidelis.
A Fact just for shits and giggles the Vietnam war was won four times by the United States military wise.
ReplyDeleteIn 1965 when a Landing took place at Da Nang.
In 1968-69 after the PAVN/VC debacle of Tet.
In 1972 after the Easter Offensive during Linebacker I.
In 1973 After Linebacker II.
The reason the war went the way it did was because the politicians lacked the will, guts and bravery to deliver a knock out blow by invading the North above the DMZ after each action listed above brought the PAVN to it's knees.
During Linebacker I and II the PAVN ran out of missiles, rockets and ammo to defend their bases, airfields ports and cities. Their Armor, infantry, air force and arty were destroyed.
After Tet the VC was destroyed in detail and the PAVN had to wait till 1973 to gain strength to mount another attack.
Each time the US politician's held back from destroying any build up by PAVN, each time they went back to negotiating a peace instead of winning the war.
Each time instead of building up US forces in the area they reduced them and instituted RoE that was detrimental to winning.
In the last battles there were six carrier battle groups with assets in the gulf of Tonkin and when they sailed away they were intact.
Never judge a military performance or call a win or loss by the forces when the true losers were the Politician's and main stream media which were bigger enemies than any North Vietnamese Military formation.
No guts no glory no will and no win.
A Glad handing sack of shit politician of any streak democrat, republican or libertarian will cut your throat and leave you to die alone every fucking time.