Above you see a drawing of the "proposed" HMS Queen Elizabeth class that was canceled. Note that it came in at around 60,000 tons, was to carry 24 Phantom fighters, 12 Buccaneers and presumably at least a couple or 6 helicopters for various duties (including plane guard).
Fast forward to today and what do we have the British Ministry of Defense planning for their flagship in terms of aircraft? 12. A grand total of 12 fighters.
Say that out loud and see if it makes sense to you. 12 fighters on a 60,000 ton aircraft carrier. What a waste of a fabulous capability.
While that picture only shows 12 F-35Cs, the CVF will carry up to 36.
ReplyDeletethe british ministry of defense has stated that it will have 12 airplanes on it. i'll find the link.
ReplyDeleteSol, yes they have stated that, but as the standard load, ie one squadron. Capacity will indeed be three squadrons (36 aircraft - not sure if helos are included or on top of that). Still measly compared to a Nimitz class (an example where the American bigger = better mentality is actually somewhat true) but not a bad warload compared to pretty much anything else in the world.
ReplyDeleteThe main reason for these figures is that the RAF/RN are meant to share the F35 buy like the Harrier and so only one squadron is permanently assigned to the RN, but the RAF can boost numbers up if necessary. I assume this is still the case with F35C as the RAF need a replacement strike plane in that time frame.
And whilst 12 doesn't sound great for a normal deployment keep in mind Ark Royal and Illustrious were sailing around with none (or 1-3) in the last decade a lot of the time until they were needed to train/actually deploy for ops.
It's not an ideal solution but it deals with budget constraints and inter-service politics better than any other solution I can think of.
Even the Midways carried more aircraft at about the same displacement.
ReplyDeletei don't really see them being able to share space on the HMS Elizabeth as a possibility. if they had kept the F-35B then yes but how are you going to have the RAF justify having its pilots carrier qualified? more to the point if the FAA allows having RAF pilots carrier qualified then that's just one step closer to eliminating the FAA. no one in the Royal Navy is that stupid.
ReplyDeleteThe writing was on the wall for FAA the moment they went to joint Harrier force. Shortly thereafter they retired the Sea Harriers. At that moment the FAA was gutted. Flying the RAF Harriers a few more years till they too were retired was just the blood draining slowly.
ReplyDeleteThe challenges they'll have keeping the F-35C pilots carrier qualified with only one carrier is the larger question. It would be nice to think that eventually they'll convert the 2nd one for CATOBAR but that's not very likely and also requires they buy more C's or operate two carriers with one air wing.
Has MOD really thought about whether the RAF or FAA will operate the C?
Sol I don't know exactly how it will work but the FAA will have it forced on them like JFH if necessary. The point is there is capacity and planes to go to 3x the 12 number you gave, and there will be enough pilots qualified (or who can be requaled quickly) to go to a full war load in a short space of time.
ReplyDeletei hope you're right. despite appearances i'm a fan of the British and their military. from the outside looking in, things just appear to be off. i would love to see a stronger commitment to defence than i'm seeing from this side of the pond.
ReplyDeleteSol, so would I, but unfortunately until shit hits the fan and we need proper war fighting capabilities again I don't see it happening.
ReplyDeleteI know that when something does go down we'll find a way to get the job done (never underestimate our ability to make do, improvise, beg or borrow when necessary - basic British army training that) and after that they'll invest in defence for a while again. The only downside is some poor guys like you and me will have to die unnecessarily first for them to realise that it could have been done easier/better/safer if they'd paid for the right gear.
This has never been stated, the capacity is 40 fighters plus many more helicopters.
ReplyDeleteuh. sorry. wrong.
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