Actually the honor code is irrelevant in this case. It is settled law that no Government institution (except the Military) can require you to give up Constitutional rights to receive services. To put it bluntly, no public owned University can implement a speech code. The Constitution trumps the honor code or clause.
'"They were given until close of business Friday to contest the decision. No word yet on whether either will.
CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin said she believes there will be a constitutional challenge to the expulsions.
"It's sort of one of the first things you learn in law school ... you may disapprove of what someone says but you still defend their right to say it," she said."
But Boren did say that their speech does make for a hostile environment, which would likely be the legal defense they use in federal court
OU is already feeling pain
"So far, no students have dropped out -- voluntarily -- but the video has cost the university's football team a top recruit as offensive lineman Jean Delance said Monday he was de-committing from the Sooners and considering other teams."
Honestly i am torn, while I lean against expulsion i can see why he wanted such dramatic measures. sad either way,
While I am impressed with what the Chinese are doing with their space program, I'm actually seeing hope in other programs as well. The ESA might finally be trying to developed manned capacity, and the Indians tested their orbital capsule last December. But I'm really happy to see both the Orion and the commercial efforts of Space X lurching forward. America would best be served if we could get our allies to have their own committed space programs, solid commercial launch programs, a military launch capacity, and NASA getting back into the game idea of deep space manned exploration. Overall I do have hope, but we can't rest on our laurels of previous generations.
You are calling for punishment, but not to the extend as to ostracize these people from society, instead you prefer to mentor them in hopes of redeeming them in to productive members of society, also because they could otherwise slip even further and become dangerous.
That basically is ONE of the options I want to keep open for Muslim youths who are in danger of radicalizing, something you opposed.
Young people DO make mistakes.. just different backgrounds lead to different types of mistakes. There is these ones and their problems, Ghetto kids and gangs, Bored dutch rural ones and alcohol.. etc.
We all know what it is that appeals to certain Muslim youth..
I submit to you every snooty college kid stopped from being a 'KKK' leader, every underprivileged one saved from becoming a murdering gang-banger AND every Muslim that does not become a radical terrorist is a blessing for society!
Except that it will only cost them maybe 1/10th of what we spent. Because they're not trying to "cooperate" with a dozen other nations that might or might not keep their commitments. They're just building it for themselves.
So you're all for heading straight to Mars instead of testing systems and procedures on the chunk o rock that's only 3 days away first? Giving up, in the process, the military advantages of having a presence on the moon and at the LaGrange point in-between?
that would still be the annual budget for nasa spent on a stupid space station with questionable scientific payouts. No one gives a shit about space stations anymore, hell they are already talking about dismantling the space station in the 2020's. The entire premise was international corporation to advance mankind, it was more of a political stunt than anything else.
China is just doing this to try to justify to the world that it's worthy. The problem is zero fucks have been given by everyone else in the world.
that's just not true. even a public university isn't required to admit everyone that applies to it and once admitted you have to maintain a certain standard of behavior to remain. additionally its not required to allow people that are detrimental to the university to even come on its grounds. why do you think that we don't see Neo-Nazi's walking the campus in full uniform as we speak? additionally THERE ARE CLAUSES that allow the expulsion of students that are viewed as bringing discredit to a school.
i stand by my contention that while legal, the actions are short sighted.
Sorry to disagree Solomon, but once again, this has been litigated before. But don't take my word for it, a very good explanation of this by Eugene Volokh, a professor of Constitutional law at UCLA, can be read here... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/03/10/no-a-public-university-may-not-expel-students-for-racist-speech/ . As the First Amendment is his particular area of expertise I tend to believe he has more knowledge on the subject than either of us.
Actually the honor code is irrelevant in this case. It is settled law that no Government institution (except the Military) can require you to give up Constitutional rights to receive services. To put it bluntly, no public owned University can implement a speech code. The Constitution trumps the honor code or clause.
ReplyDeletesome interesting links
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/michael-meyers-don-expel-ou-racists-article-1.2143352
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/us/oklahoma-racist-chant-what-is-next/index.html
one quote:
'"They were given until close of business Friday to contest the decision. No word yet on whether either will.
CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin said she believes there will be a constitutional challenge to the expulsions.
"It's sort of one of the first things you learn in law school ... you may disapprove of what someone says but you still defend their right to say it," she said."
But Boren did say that their speech does make for a hostile environment, which would likely be the legal defense they use in federal court
OU is already feeling pain
"So far, no students have dropped out -- voluntarily -- but the video has cost the university's football team a top recruit as offensive lineman Jean Delance said Monday he was de-committing from the Sooners and considering other teams."
Honestly i am torn, while I lean against expulsion i can see why he wanted such dramatic measures. sad either way,
another article discusses legal issues.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/03/10/what-speech-is-going-to-justify-expulsion-next/
While I am impressed with what the Chinese are doing with their space program, I'm actually seeing hope in other programs as well. The ESA might finally be trying to developed manned capacity, and the Indians tested their orbital capsule last December. But I'm really happy to see both the Orion and the commercial efforts of Space X lurching forward. America would best be served if we could get our allies to have their own committed space programs, solid commercial launch programs, a military launch capacity, and NASA getting back into the game idea of deep space manned exploration. Overall I do have hope, but we can't rest on our laurels of previous generations.
ReplyDeleteI am surprised about this.
ReplyDeleteYou are calling for punishment, but not to the extend as to ostracize these people from society, instead you prefer to mentor them in hopes of redeeming them in to productive members of society, also because they could otherwise slip even further and become dangerous.
That basically is ONE of the options I want to keep open for Muslim youths who are in danger of radicalizing, something you opposed.
Young people DO make mistakes.. just different backgrounds lead to different types of mistakes. There is these ones and their problems, Ghetto kids and gangs, Bored dutch rural ones and alcohol.. etc.
We all know what it is that appeals to certain Muslim youth..
I submit to you every snooty college kid stopped from being a 'KKK' leader, every underprivileged one saved from becoming a murdering gang-banger AND every Muslim that does not become a radical terrorist is a blessing for society!
Just a reminder that this satellite is Chinese made, owned but partially funded by the US Government.
ReplyDeleteSo if anyone has a "beef" with that, y'all know who to call. :)
Except that it will only cost them maybe 1/10th of what we spent. Because they're not trying to "cooperate" with a dozen other nations that might or might not keep their commitments. They're just building it for themselves.
ReplyDeleteSo you're all for heading straight to Mars instead of testing systems and procedures on the chunk o rock that's only 3 days away first? Giving up, in the process, the military advantages of having a presence on the moon and at the LaGrange point in-between?
ReplyDeleteYou must work for LockMart.
that would still be the annual budget for nasa spent on a stupid space station with questionable scientific payouts. No one gives a shit about space stations anymore, hell they are already talking about dismantling the space station in the 2020's. The entire premise was international corporation to advance mankind, it was more of a political stunt than anything else.
ReplyDeleteChina is just doing this to try to justify to the world that it's worthy. The problem is zero fucks have been given by everyone else in the world.
Yawn, much ado about nothing. The reality is something else entirely different, far more relevant and far more ominous.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRszuS9qK34
Remember, black lives matter. Just not very much. We are heading for something very ugly indeed.
Punish freedom of association and free speech. Jesse Jackson rev wright sharpton and obama in the White House. This is the end of America.
ReplyDeleteIt is my lunch counter I choose who sits there.
http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/2015/3/9/the-way-of-frat
ReplyDeletethat's just not true. even a public university isn't required to admit everyone that applies to it and once admitted you have to maintain a certain standard of behavior to remain. additionally its not required to allow people that are detrimental to the university to even come on its grounds. why do you think that we don't see Neo-Nazi's walking the campus in full uniform as we speak? additionally THERE ARE CLAUSES that allow the expulsion of students that are viewed as bringing discredit to a school.
ReplyDeletei stand by my contention that while legal, the actions are short sighted.
''we struggle to simply get back into earth orbit.''
ReplyDeleteWait what? USA has moved past LEO. Let Russia and China fuck around there - US is aiming for Mars.
And fuck Moon.
Sorry to disagree Solomon, but once again, this has been litigated before. But don't take my word for it, a very good explanation of this by Eugene Volokh, a professor of Constitutional law at UCLA, can be read here... http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/03/10/no-a-public-university-may-not-expel-students-for-racist-speech/ . As the First Amendment is his particular area of expertise I tend to believe he has more knowledge on the subject than either of us.
ReplyDelete