Flight Deck Operations

Keel Laid for First DDG 1000 Destroyer

Via US Navy..

BATH, Maine (NNS) -- The U.S. Navy laid the keel for its first Zumwalt-class destroyer (DDG 1000), Nov. 17, at General Dynamics-Bath Iron Works shipyard in Bath, Maine.

While keel laying was once traditionally the formal recognition of the start of the ship's construction, today's advanced modular shipbuilding allows fabrication of the ship to begin months before. However, the keel laying continues to symbolically recognize the joining of the ship's components and the ceremonial beginning of the ship.

"Keel laying is just the first of many important milestones and events in bringing Zumwalt to life," said Capt. Jim Downey, DDG 1000 program manager, Program Executive Office, Ships. "With the outstanding team we have assembled, I look forward to building on the superb progress we've achieved to date and delivering this extremely capable warship to the Fleet."

The lead ship and class are named in honor of former Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Elmo R. "Bud" Zumwalt Jr., who served as chief of naval operations from 1970-1974. The ship's co-sponsors, Ann Zumwalt, Mouzetta Zumwalt-Weathers, and Lt.Col. James G. Zumwalt symbolically authenticated the keel with a plate displaying the initials of all four children of the ship's namesake, including eldest son, the late-Elmo R. Zumwalt III.

Construction began on DDG 1000 in February 2009, and the Navy and its industry partners have worked to mature the ship's design and ready their industrial facilities to build this advanced surface combatant. Zumwalt is currently more than 60 percent complete and scheduled to deliver in fiscal year 2014. Construction on the second ship of the class, Michael Moonsoor (DDG 1001), began March 2010.

Designed for sustained operations in the littorals and land attack, the multi-mission DDG 1000 will provide independent forward presence and deterrence, support special operations forces, and operate as an integral part of joint and combined expeditionary forces. This warship integrates numerous critical technologies, systems, and principles into a complete warfighting system. These include employment of optimal manning through human systems integration, improved quality of life, low operations and support costs, multi-spectral signature reduction, balanced warfighting design, survivability, and adaptability.

Looks like the Marine Corps gets it naval gunnery after all.

Great news...no this is beyond good news.  While the other services are focused on what might come to pass in the budget battles ahead, the Navy and Marine Corps are getting ships into service at an accelerated rate.

Good news indeed.

USMC delays JLTV going with upgraded HUMVEE's?

Jonathan sent me this article (thanks guy) from Bloomberg News covering the JLTV/Humvee issue in the Marines. Read the article but as usual, below are the good bits...

The U.S. Marine Corps may scrap plans to buy new combat trucks until the late 2020s, officials told a U.S. House Armed Services panel.

The Joint Light Tactical Vehicle program is under scrutiny in Congress after a Senate panel recommended its termination in September. The Marine Corps plans to develop the new truck with the U.S. Army.

The Marine Corps said it may delay the JLTV and rely longer on its aging Humvee trucks because its priority is to buy new amphibious assault vehicles to ferry Marines from sea to land.

The biggest risk to the plan to modernize the combat vehicle fleet is “not program schedule but rather decision schedules,” Brigadier General Daniel O’Donohue, director of capabilities development, Brigadier General Frank Kelley, the head of Marine Corps Systems Command, and William Taylor, the land systems program executive officer, said today in a joint statement prepared for a hearing of the House Armed Services tactical air and land forces subcommittee.

If JLTV is delayed, “we lose an opportunity that we cannot readdress” until after the procurement of a new amphibious combat vehicle, or ACV, “in the late 2020s,” the officials said.

Ok.

Not an optimal solution but one I can live with.  This makes total sense.  If we get involved in another counter insurgency/nation building op then we can pull MRAPs out of storage.  This move could actually start the Marine Corps on the road to getting lighter.

Additionally it will place priorities on weapon systems.  We'll finally start telling policy makers what are must haves and what are nice to haves.  I believe that the JLTV falls into the nice to have end of the debate.

My opinion, but I just don't see how we can afford JLTV's right now...we have too many vehicles/aircraft to replace at one time.  Now if we could only get a handle on our rotary aviation problem...that's going to be the next headache!

NOTE:

I just used the BAE offering as an example of the upgraded HUMVEE.  I don't have a dog in the fight the only thing I would add to this competition is the requirement for a massively upgraded suspension...the TAK-4 from Oshkosh would seem ideal on any of the offerings, but hopefully all the competitors have that issue covered.

Singapore to acquire F-35B's!?!

I caught this on AOL Defense...

Thirdly, the F-35 is a significant ISR asset. The Aussies can build ISR collection facilities, which can leverage the entire allied FLEET of F-35s operating in a regional security setting. They can use such facilities to shape an approach to link other allied ISR assets to establish a "honeycomb" network or grid along the Pacific Rim.

Singapore intends to acquire the VSTOL F-35Bs and perhaps put them aboard ships as well, and South Korea might well do the same. By working with Singapore and South Korea, and the Navy/Marine Amphibious Ready Groups, Australia could work on how best to do airfield protection using joint assets such as Aegis and F-35Bs on land in bunkered and EMP shielded revetments in case of severe runway damage.

Such an Australian hub could be a key element in shaping a new Pacific strategy. For the U.S. and its allies crafting a scalable force, one which can leverage one another's assets across the vast expanses of the Pacific, is crucial. Since no platform fights alone, an allied FLEET of F-35s is a key lynchpin for shaping such a scalable force.

And by shaping a mix of hubs and bases, a honeycomb of force capability could be built for US and allied forces. Diversifying the location of hubs, facilities and bases is crucial not only for the US but its allies and partners. Looking at how to leverage new systems to enhance diversification is a key opportunity to deal with the multiplicity of threats in the Pacific and reduce the capability of an aggressor to concentrate force.

Wow.

Let me say that again...Wow!

I always thought it but never heard a news organization say it out loud...Singapore intends to acquire the F-35B and S. Korea might do the same....

Something tells me that the USMC won't be buying that full allotment of F-35C's after all!  But perhaps the most interesting part of the story is the part which talks about using the F-35 as the link in an ISR net stretching across the Pacific.

This has been a fantastic couple of weeks for the F-35 and this just adds to the good news...

WE NEED MORE AMPHIBS!

Galrahn at Information Dissemination makes a case for more Amphibs.  Its a must read and I hope you do but here's the juicy bits...

While ARG deployments in the Pacific are old hat for the Navy and Marine Corps, it is becoming increasingly rare to see an ARG deployed from either coast to spend any significant amount of time anywhere other than operating under CENTCOM command in the 5th fleet. I have heard many suggestions that the Makin Island ARG has been working overtime during deployment preparations training for activities specific to activities one might find around Somalia and Yemen - like piracy. If I was a pirate warlord, my advice is to take the best deal you can for ransom as soon as possible, and start looking for a new job with less associated risk.

Ok, that makes sense.  Remember all the pics that I've been posting of Marines training to board, visit and inspect ships at sea?  Now It all comes together.  I think he's spot on with the 11th MEU about to get busy against pirates.  But check out this part...

If you recall, as a response to unfolding events in Libya, the Bataan ARG deployed a few weeks early on March 23, 2011 - 207 days ago (nearly 8 months ago). Lets just say she isn't coming home for Christmas, and if she isn't home by Valentines Day (a legitimate possibility) - the ships will break all records for deployment length since World War II.

Tipping Point much?

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Amphibs are the most important, viable and needed ships in the Navy.  And according to Galrahn, we need more!

Why the F-35 can't be killed...

What is ultimately going to protect the F-35 from cancellation?  The foreign air forces that have invested in it thats what!  Imagine the penalties, hard feelings and distrust that would bloom from a cancellation of a program that is employing high tech people in several countries--a program that seeks to provide the backbone of future forces for several decades if not longer!  But this story from Defense News seals the deal and should make every critics blood turn cold.

Canada's defense minister said it was premature to signal the end of the F-35 fighter jet that is to become the backbone of its air force, after his U.S. counterpart said the program may have to be axed.
"This sort of apocryphal language that the Joint Strike Fighter program is coming to an end and that countries are pulling back is not correct. It's premature to make those kinds of judgments," Defense Minister Peter MacKay said Nov. 16.

"A lot of this, clearly, is brought about by budgetary pressures, and Canada, like every country, is concerned about delays in delivery and discussions around the cost."
MacKay said Canada is in discussions with the manufacturer Lockheed Martin as well as other countries that committed to buying the next-generation fighters.

"Let's not get ahead of ourselves," he told reporters.

Sorry haters.  The dream of cancelling the F-35 is just that...a dream...

The Future of Short Take-Off Vertical Landing Aircraft

Modest proposal. Re-do Tanks along with AAV's...

Hey All.

I have a modest proposal.  While we're redesigning our AAV Battalions to operate two separate vehicles, I say that it would make sense and piggy back onto that development and add an additional class of vehicle to the mix.

As it is now we'll be operating AAV and Amphibious Combat Vehicles...Marine Personnel Carriers with crewmen designate (I'm assuming) to operate both vehicles under one unit.

How about we take whichever vehicle wins the Marine Personnel Carrier competition and add the gun designed for the US Army's MGS system to it!  With that being done, we can then disband Tanks and have direct fire come from the USMC's newly built Direct Fire Gun System (hate the MGS moniker and I love to differentiate our systems from Army if possible)

CAB

The new Battalions would be designated Combat Assault Battalions (I chose this for a couple of reasons...its already in use by the Marine Corps by elements in Okinawa...and will help preserve unit lineage)

So in the end what do we win.  We get all of mechanized assault under one roof.  We get reduced weight aboard our amphibious shipping...and finally our logistics tail from fuel to parts will be reduced.

Instead of operating M1 Tanks, LAV-25's (if we go with MPC then it only makes sense to retire these vehicles), whatever MPC wins the competition and the AAV and its follow on, we're down to just the MPC filling the roles of LAV, MPC (and its gun system) and the AAV.

Consider this a combat vehicle neck down campaign if you will.

What do we lose?  Command slots for Lt. Colonels and Colonels (not exactly a bad thing in a shrinking Marine Corps), but one other thing that isn't quite as good and might entail a bit of risk...we lose the shock action of tanks.  My thinking is that our airpower (F-35, AH-1Z, UH-1Y and Harrier) will be tasked with another mission...anti-armor if we're up against a first tier foe.

Its not perfect and this is just an outline sketch of an idea but I believe it could work.  But if it can't then we at least need to take steps to reduce the weight of the M1 and we need to work out whether they need to deploy with MEU's in greater strength, whether we move them to the Reserves or if we redesign them to make it all work out.  I like what the Jordanians did with their old Chieftans...an unmanned turret should save quite a bit of weight...

Updated Art of the Tactical Carbine is on sale...

CH-46's with the 31st MEU...

Another example of your forward deployed Marines in action...

A CH-46E Sea Knight helicopter with Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 265 (Reinforced), 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, makes an approach to the forward-deployed amphibious assault ship USS Essex (LHD 2). The 31st MEU is the only continually forward-deployed MEU and remains the United States' force in readiness in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Matthew R. Cole/Released)

Two CH-46E Sea Knight helicopters with Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 265 (Reinforced), 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, make an approach to the forward-deployed amphibious assault ship USS Essex (LHD 2). The 31st MEU is the only continually forward-deployed MEU and remains the United States' force in readiness in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Matthew R. Cole/Released)

Two CH-46E Sea Knight helicopters with Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 265 (Reinforced), 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, fly over the Celebes Sea from the forward-deployed amphibious assault ship USS Essex (LHD 2). The 31st MEU is the only continually forward-deployed MEU and remains the United States' force in readiness in the Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Eva-Marie Ramsaran/Released)

Piranha 3 for Marine Personnel Carrier Contest.

With the BAE/Iveco SuperAV 8x8 being practically vapor ware, the only competition left for Lockheed Martin/Patria Havoc 8x8 is probably this offering from General Dynamics Europe.  The Piranha Class 3 is in service with the Spanish Marine Corps and I believe is also being used by the Brazilian Marines.

Either way, I'm beginning to sense the same issues with the MPC that I saw with the EFV program.  A lack of focus, a lack of urgency and no drive from HQMC to get this project going.

As much as I am a fan of the F-35, we can't let the wing suck the air outta the room.  Question for those that doubt me on this...have you heard any word of the upgrades proposed for the AAV?  What about the RFP for the AAV?  Supposedly its out but I have yet to get my hands it.

We need a hard charging Colonel or General to get his hands on the ground combat vehicle situation in the Corps or we'll be riding AAV's into the 2030's.

F-35 Critics take it over the top.

ELP over at his blog has gone off the deep end when it comes to his critique of the F-35 program.  Why?  Because he uses the death of this unfortunate man to high light his disagreement with the program.  Check this out...

A South African farmer has been mauled to death by his pet hippo, after he was warned repeatedly that the animal was dangerous and could never be tamed.
Marius Els, 40, once described six-year-old Humphrey the Hippo as being "like a son" to him but was viciously attacked and killed by the beast over the weekend.
Els was bitten to death by the 1.2 tonne Humphrey and dragged underwater in the same river where he rescued the hippo as a calf.
Humphrey had become an internet sensation earlier this year after footage of Els riding and swimming with him became a hit on YouTube.
"Humphrey's like a son to me, he's just like a human," Els said at the time. "There's a relationship between me and Humphrey and that's what some people don't understand. They think you can only have a relationship with dogs, cats and domestic animals. But I have a relationship with the most dangerous animal in Africa."
However, Els was not unaware of the danger that came with petting a dangerous animal that can move at nearly 50 km/hr.
"Humphrey could rip a man my size apart with no problem - it's a little bit dangerous," he had said.
Humphrey also showed signs it was not as friendly as Els thought.
South African media reported that he chased a 52-year-old man and his seven-year-old grandson up a tree and killed calves that belonged to Els's business partner.
He also broke out of its enclosure often and chased golfers at the local golf club.

Over the top much?  Yeah.  Rabid hatred of a program?  Yeah.  Using the death of a fellow human being to advance your agenda?  Yeah and thats why this is so fucked up.

Disagree all you want but to use a persons death as a punchline to highlight your disagreement is just beyond the pale.

Shock Troopers! Too funny!

Pic of the day. Nov 15, 2011

A U.S. Army CH-47 Chinook takes off from Bagram Air Field, Afghanistan, Nov 5, 2011.
177th Fighter Wing – NJ Air National Guard
Photo by Tech. Sgt. Matt Hecht

US Special Ops focuses on raids, Israel focuses on deep recon.

Jonathan sent me this article (thanks guy) on an Israeli plan to possibly combine several Israeli Special Ops teams into one unit.  via Defense News Electronic Edition.

Israel May Merge Units For Far-flung Missions

By BARBARA OPALL-ROME TEL AVIV

— Israeli military leaders may merge several historically autonomous elite commando units into a single special operations force oriented to multidisciplinary missions far from Israel’s borders. The proposed force, known among a small circle of senior officers here as Deep Corps, is one of several organizational and conceptual upgrades under review in response to escalating threats and instability anticipated in a rapidly changing region.

As the democratic winds of the “Arab spring” turn into what many here pejoratively call the Islamic winter, Israeli military leaders are making worst-case contingency plans for high-intensity war on multiple fronts, and for the prospect of bold, increasingly long-range preemptive special operations.

Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz, Israel Defense Forces (IDF) chief of staff, directed a review of the pros and cons of establishing the unified Deep Corps special operations force. Details of the study, led by Maj. Gen. Gadi Eisenkot, a former head of operations and commander of Israel’s Northern Command, have not yet been presented to Gantz for approval.

According to one member of the General Staff, the idea is to merge Sayeret Matkal, Israel’s premier General Staff reconnaissance unit; Navy SEALs (Flotilla 13); the Air Force’s Shaldag target designation unit and 669 airborne search and rescue force into a single com­mand structure subordinate to the IDF chief of General Staff.

Under the plan, each elite unit would re­tain its unique capabilities, but the consoli­dated command would encourage a holistic, less competitive, collaborative approach to mission planning and training. Proponents argue this will allow a more seamless and ul­timately effective operational force.
“We’re talking about an organizational change that impacts planning, training and chain of command, not budget,” said the IDF general officer.

He noted that the proposed Deep Corps special operations force supports a new op­erational concept coalescing within the IDF called “the operational arena between wars.” Under this new concept, the IDF must be prepared to intensify counterterror, anti­smuggling, anti-proliferation and other op­erations beyond its immediate and interme­diate circles of enemy states to the so-called outer circle of threats.
Israel’s military censor did not allow ref­erence to these outer circle states, but for­eign sources have defined them to include Iran and countries lining the Gulf of Aden.

“Before all these changes in the region, the IDF fluctuated between planning for war and fighting wars in parallel to our routine anti-terror operations,” the officer said. “But in the new reality, we understand that there is also a war between wars … and this is much more quiet and extends to much wider circles.”

- from the electronic version of DefenseNews.com

 So while the rest of the Western world, including the US continues to transform all of our units into Rangers...and by that I mean all raids, all the time...the Israeli's see the benefit in having their Special Ops Units be able to perform what I contend is the most difficult of all Special Ops missions.  Deep Recon into hostile territory.

What I don't get is why you would attach the Search and Rescue Unit into this proposed unit.  The only thing that actually makes sense in that regard is if this unit actually going after Iranian Nuke sites and they are also being tasked with not only designating targets but also rescue of aircrew.  This bears watching.

Death from 80,000 feet...

Fire-Breathing Dragon Lady

At several points over the career of the U-2 high altitude reconnaissance aircraft, Lockheed engineers have looked at the possibility of arming the Dragon Lady. This photo, circa 1965, shows a U-2R model in the Lockheed low speed wind tunnel in Burbank, California, with various air-to-air missiles and free-fall munitions on fourteen hardpoints under the wings.

I don't what madman at Lockheed Martin came up with this idea but the thought of a 1000 pound bomb dropping from 80,000 feet onto a target is enough to give me pause.

With the F-22 fans all atwitter about the advantage of operating at high altitude, imagine a spyplane flying another 30,000 feet above the max ceiling of most fighters (without the pilots in those fighters having to wear spacesuits) raining AMRAAMs at them and you have a MIG killer from hell.

That is if super high flight is actually an advantage in aerial combat.

Anyway, as usual, someone already thought to try.

Japan impressed with the F-35's stealth.

That's right.  Japan is impressed with the F-35's stealth!  Read it and weep critics.  via the Telegraph.

Defence analysts monitoring the three-way dogfight for the multi-billion contract say Tokyo has been impressed with the stealth technology of the Lockheed Martin F-35, which will enable it to carry out clandestine monitoring of Chinese, North Korean and Russian military assets in the region.

It also remains indebted to Washington for the assistance the US military provided in the aftermath of the March 11 earthquake.

"Even before March 11 there were many factors in favour of the F-35, but since then that national security relationship between the two governments has become much closer," one analyst with knowledge of the bidding told The Daily Telegraph.

A couple of points.

*Typhoon makers are prepping share holders for another loss

*The Japanese government is properly reading the tea leaves and realizes that Washington is finally had enough of the yearly protest by Japanese citizens about US bases.

*China has over played its "nationalist" card and has alarmed governments up and down the Pacific Rim pushing them further into the US camp.

*Advanced weapons are great but without a policy to back up those arms sales (like mutual defense treaties) it becomes difficult to make the sale.

Lastly, this is just another in a series of great news stories for the F-35.  The year started off shaky but is ending with nothing but success.

JSOW can be internally carried by the F-35.

via Defense Talk.com

DUBAI: Raytheon Company  has completed a fit check of the Joint Standoff Weapon in the internal carriage bay of the Joint Strike Fighter aircraft."The capabilities of the JSF combined with JSOW C-1's ability to precisely engage moving ships at sea from standoff ranges would give the U.S. and coalition warfighter a powerful capability," said Cmdr. Samuel Hanaki, U.S. Navy JSOW deputy program manager.During the fit check, Raytheon technicians loaded a JSOW shape in the JSF's internal carriage bay and conducted a series of tests to prove the bay door could close properly without damaging the aircraft or the weapon."JSOW C-1 is the world's first net-enabled standoff weapon that can engage a moving maritime target," said Phyllis McEnroe, JSOW program director for Raytheon Missile Systems. "With its more than 110 kilometer range (68 statute miles) and tunnel defeat capability, JSOW C-1 will give members of the JSF a critical capability no other weapon can provide."

And that almost makes it a wrap.  The critics will howl but this program has had a pretty spectacular month and half...every negative news story is sounding like desperation from the nay sayers....its just that obvious.  Another F-35 win, more tears and fretting from Typhoon, Rafael and Gripen...and best of all for the allies, a stable, funded and predictable upgrade path for their next multi-role fighter.

Let's talk stacks....

I said lets talk stacks, but I should say lets talk about the US military's form of room clearing.

Is it dynamic?

Not as taught.

So what is it properly called.

Deliberate room clearing.

Its slow.  Methodical.  Civilian casualty averse.

But its not dynamic.  Its not designed to prevent US casualties.  It designed to dot the i's and cross the t's for the lawyers.  But I look forward to hearing what others have to say on this subject.  My contention is that stacks against a properly equipped and motivated enemy will get our people killed.  It is a hold over from the bad old days of the 70's when everyone was practicing to rescue hostages.  It originated in civilian law enforcement and that's where it should stay.  I don't have the answer to a better way but (yes I'm repeating myself) it will get our people killed if we keep doing it the way we are.

But that's my opinion.  What's yours.

UPDATE.  Historical Comparison.

My blog so its my world.  Let's compare the situations in two different battlefields.  Hue City and Fallujah.

Both battles highlighted extensive house to house fighting.  Brutal combat at close ranges.  Both had (at least for a while in the case of Hue City) extreme prohibitions on the amount of firepower that could be applied to enemy fortifications.  Long story short, two different battles, somewhat similar tactics used by enemy forces yet the casualty figures (according to Wikipedia...yeah I know) are still somewhat similar (no disrespect to those that were injured or to the families of those who lost there lives...just looking at tactics, I request your patience with me on this).

How similar were the battles...both featured enemy snipers, machine gun positions, suicide bombers, enemy combatants surrendering and then attacking, and even enemy combatants playing dead and then attacking.

Yet the vaunted stack did not lessen our casualty count and I contend raised it.

US Navy/Marines set to buy British GR9's!

via Defense News.

WASHINGTON and LONDON - Britain has agreed to sell all of its 74 decommissioned Harrier jump jets, along with engines and spare parts, to the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps - a move expected to help the Marines operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters....


"I don't think it will be costly to rip out the Brit systems" and replace them with Marine gear, said Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier.
Nordeen noted that the British GR 9 and 9As are similar in configuration to the Marines' AV-8B night attack version, which make up about a third of U.S. Harriers. The British planes also are night planes dedicated to air-ground attack, he said, and while both types carry Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) sensors, neither is fitted with a multimode radar such as the APG-65 carried by U.S. AV-8B+ models.
The absence of the big radar, Nordeen said, makes the GR 9A and AV-8Bs "a better-performing plane. Weighing less, it's more of a hot rod."

This is beyond good news but is it signalling something?

What I mean is this...these airplanes are going to replace F/A-18D's.  Those planes are part of the rotation to the carriers...does this mean that advance planning is going on to lower the number of big deck aircraft carriers?  Just a thought.   Correction.  F/A-18D's don't deploy on carriers (thanks for the correction LouG).  So what's the deal?  LouG points out that Fast FAC is about to take a serious hit because these are the planes that perform that role.  My next thought is that with the exception of the F/A-18A/C, the USMC will be an almost all STOVL force.  What's going to take the place of the F/A-18D in the Fast FAC role?  I have no idea but its going to be mean a serious change in the Ground Combat Elements tactics.  In the assault the Marine Corps usually keeps its artillery on the march relying on its jets to provide the airborne artillery...if you remember the Marine General in charge of the assault into Kuwait implored his pilots to go after Iraqi artillery...he said the grunts could handle the tanks...he just wanted them to take out the artillery...will the Harrier be able to perform Fast FAC????

Sidenote:

You just have to know the Brits are beyond pissed at this news...we're getting their jets for fire sale prices...Thanks Think Defence and the British people!

UPDATE:

LouG brought an observation on the purchase of these aircraft to take the place of the F/A-18D's and I misunderstood his statement.  Consider this a public apology.  In the seat experience...been there done that experience...operational experience is always appreciated.