via Fox News.
The idea with a demonstration, sources indicate, would be to use the F-35 as an airborne relay node or sensor in place of the E-2D Hawkeye. This could allow NIFC-CA to operate against an increasingly complex set of targets such as stealthy targets, the Lockheed executive explained.Read the entire article but the question must be asked.
Sensors on the F-35 include the Active Electronically Scanned Array, or AESA, radar as well as a system called Distributed Aperture System, or DAS, which combines input from as many as six different electro-optical cameras on the aircraft. The aircraft also draws upon a technology called Electro-optical Targeting System, or EOTS, which helps identify and pinpoint targets. EOTS, which does both air-to-air and air-to-ground targeting, is able to combine forward-looking infrared and infrared search and track technology.
If they're going to do this with an airplane that has avionics that are 10 years behind what the Super Hornet and Growler currently carry into combat then what can they do with the mentioned airplanes?
They're trying to awe the crowd because they don't know any better. What has me scratching my head is the attempts to wedge the F-35 into missions that it wasn't designed to fulfill. They're creating "make work" missions for a plane that isn't capable of doing the needed missions of air superiority, close air support, deep strike etc...
I'm not impressed. NAVAIR knows better but they're trying to prop up a failed airplane.
Both the EA-18 and F/A-18 E/F have the same capability to act as a forward sensor for NIFC-CA. The difference is that the F-35C is stealthier in a clean configuration (i.e. not carrying a significant weapons load.) The idea is that the "hidden" F-35C can find and then relay targeting data back to the shooter: an AEGIS destroyer for the SM-6 / TLAMS, or to the F/A-18s carrying Slammers, SLAM-ERs, JDAMs, etc. Of course, that datalink back to the E-2D is NOT stealthy (at least not until SATCOM is installed in later blocks - EA-18s and newer Supers have SATCOM now) and the short ranged MADL is not installed in any other platform ATM.
ReplyDeleteAlso, note that the contractor Lockheed Martin is foisting this capability, particularly the notion that the F-35C will REPLACE the E-2D, which is decidedly untrue. The F-35C in this scenario will act was a forward node, relaying back to the E-2D. The idea that the Navy will replace the just entering service E-2D equipped with a hugely advanced sensor and comms suite with a single pilot, low endurance jet is more marketing spin from the boys at LM and their shills like SLD Info. EOTS is 10 years behind, and DAS doesn't even work reliably - it has a high false alarm rate - something you don't want in a missile defense sensor
then a stealthy UAV would be better at this job right?
DeleteYes, hence the ongoing controversy with UCLASS specs.
DeleteBetter situational awareness combining use the Advanced Super Hornet and the Growler
ReplyDeletehttps://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSa_u377SGXLQX-_Li_LZos8JuCIxJNjGWskHZylbKfRu6mRpfj
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vQgz22sMiGM/Uh5poF2lqAI/AAAAAAAAdnA/Qhlp9D8ZNl8/s1600/zMG_9430.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVgmCQ9iGYjUcA7YGxToL6LQfFRK7MciF4-jXjDOrnLAQIP6Ai
The UK has two options for the manned component of their fleet, either an upgraded Typhoon or a new 6th gen jet.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.janes.com/article/41309/uk-sets-out-post-2030-combat-aviation-force-structure
UK sets out post-2030 combat aviation force structure
EOTS is only 5 years old, not 10+ (SDD ended and first prod EOTS delivered in Oct '0). It will also get upgrades as the F-35 does (it's an internal pod so it's easy to service and swap).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.aviationnews.eu/10045/lockheed-martin-delivers-first-production-f-35-electro-optical-targeting-system/
The key to the F-35C as a link in the sensor chain is several fold:
1. VLO airframe allows it to get closer to the action before it can be detected. Closer means better collected data.
2. It's radar is better at Air-Ground than any other radar in US inventory.
2. It's data is fully fused (F-18E/F/G is not).
3. It can relay acquired data back to the fleet without giving it's position away.
4. It can provide end-game updates to fleet-launched missiles (UAVs can't yet)
Now, as to the avionics being 10 years behind the SH, shall we start talking bout every other system in the Sh besides the Sniper Pod?
--Avionics in F-35 are fully fused, SH are not
--EODAS, F-35 has it and SH does not even have any IR MAW
--MADL, F-35 has it and SH is limited to Link16
--Radar, Not only is the -81 the best A2G radar in US inventory, but it's getting an upgrade in TR2 (this year). When was the last time the -79 got a hardware upgrade and what are the funded future plans for the -79? Before you ask, the initial rollout of the SH's AESA radar & Block 2 software is still in OT&E and will be for the next few years.
--Future upgrades, F-35 has a well funded program in place that is already working on Block4 while the SH program is limited to piecemeal programs.
are you shitting me! the program office has already admitted that its systems are not as advanced as the latest pods that are hanging off jets today. additionally the SH just got approved for an IR pod. it has two seats so your fused systems are irrelevant. a dedicated weapons officer is able to do everything your fused systems does only better. oh and you can put those upgrades in your back pocket cause they're useless. its gonna be too expensive to upgrade because everything is inside! and if that isn't enough then you also have the weight issue. its got 1 (ONE) pound away from being put on a fat boy diet! that's craziness! the plane is going to need to undergo another SWAT and its not even in service yet!!!!!!!
DeleteKEEP THE DREAM ALIVE SPUDMAN!!!!!
you're smoking crack and everyone knows it. not even Mac is spouting the party line anymore.
@Sputman
DeleteWhere have you being the last 3 years?
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2015/january/mfc-012115-us-navy-approves-fa18-super-hornet-irst-system-production.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-navy-to-add-sensor-fusion-to-super-hornet-fleet-376973/
Rockwell Collins SubNetwork Relay: http://youtu.be/dLGL-Vqzeog
Rockwell Collins Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT) capabilities: http://youtu.be/QZRrNIdJSAU
DeleteWhat? "additionally the SH just got approved for an IR pod."
DeleteYou have know the IR sensor is an improved version of what the F-14D had decades ago. So the system on the F-35 are too old, but the 20+ year old IRST originally flow on F-14D is not too old? The same exact unit has been flying on the F-15SG (Boeing calls "Tiger Eyes") since 2008.
you're so wrong it hurts. do your research son cause right now you sound like an idiot...not trying to be mean, just actual and factual.
Delete"IRST21 is the next generation of Lockheed Martin’s legacy IRST sensor system, which accumulated over 300,000 flight hours on F-14 and international F-15 platforms. As a passive, long-range sensor system, IRST21 uses infrared search and track technology to detect and track airborne threats with weapon-quality accuracy, increasing pilot reaction time and improving survivability.
DeleteA compact design enables IRST21 to be integrated in a variety of ways. On the F/A-18E/F, IRST21 is mounted on the nose section of the centerline fuel tank. A podded sensor system with IRST21 is also in development and will be transportable across a wide range of platforms including the F-15C and F-16."
So yes, the IRST in the tank is a development of the same IRST that flew on the F-14 and currently fly's on some F-15s (Singapore).
THE OPERATIVE WORDS ARE "NEXT GENERATION" OR CAN'T YOU READ??????
Deleteseriously Spudman...you're better than this. you're really looking silly.
The Block 1 IRST sensor (~60 units) for the Super Hornet is a development of the what was originally installed on late model F-14s, and currently installed on Singaporean F-15SGs. The Block 2 IRST follow-on sensor is almost all new, except for some optical components. If the ASH comes to fruition, it gets installed in the fuse somewhere, otherwise, CLT - which does have some advantages.
DeleteMADL is currently only on F-35s. Efforts to develop D/L pods to bridge the disparate waveforms have been slowed due to sequestration, so were not going to see anything on this front until the 2020s. The other issue is that MADL has only about 20km max range, which for a forward based sensor is not very effective.
SH sensor fusion is very good. But what is important is passing precise geo-located coordinates, VV, speed, and target type - which the SH / Growler can do now. The implication that the SH cannot without super fantastic "F-35" style fusion, with pano display and HMDS is simply not correct. That said, fusing the IRST sensor data is more challenging than originally thought (damn Lockheed Martin software coders strike again,) which is one reason why there will be a delay in its introduction into the fleet (sequestration is the other.) But then again, the SH is currently fleeting SCS H8E (a software version,) with a roadmap that goes out to SCS H14, so plenty more features to be integrated into the aircraft.
Integrating anything new into the F-35 requires a great deal of regression test with the software, and since EOTS will be at least 10 years old by FRP (and still of lower rez and lacking other important features) and limited by form factor/bay size/aperature, a new EOTS is not coming until 2025 at the earliest.
get your wording correct. it is a NEXT GENERATION IRST....stop with this "is a development of the previous model that was installed on the F-14"!!!! you're being a bit too complimentary for that foolishness that F-35 supporters are pushing.
Deleteadditionally stop blaming sequestration on the development problems with the F-35! its been totally shielded by the Pentagon and SEVERAL NEEDED PROGRAMS HAVE BEEN KILLED TO SUPPORT THIS ABOMINATION OF AN AIRPLANE!
To be clear, the 20km MADL range is for high bandwidth comms (enabling graphics) - lower data rates have a somewhat longer range. Also, LM builds the IRST for the SH, and provides middleware for the sensor, but Boeing writes the SCS. Having different vendors writing software is known to cause, er - problems.
DeleteThe F35 is NOT a VLO platform and with anything on the pylons it isn't even LO.
DeleteSol, just because someone calls something "Next Generation" doesn't really mean it is.
DeleteLook at all the LM classifications of aircraft that somehow manages to put their product at the head of the line. Gen 3, Gen 4, Gen 4.5, Gen 5 etc. All bullshit.
From LOCKHEEDS own web page:
Deletehttp://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/InfraredSearchTrack.html
"IRST21 is the next generation of Lockheed Martin’s legacy IRST sensor system, which accumulated over 300,000 flight hours on F-14 and international F-15 platforms. As a passive, long-range sensor system, IRST21 uses infrared search and track technology to detect and track airborne threats with weapon-quality accuracy, increasing pilot reaction time and improving survivability."
This is the manufactures personal propaganda page .
To quote you "you're so wrong it hurts. do your research son cause right now you sound like an idiot.."
NEXT GENERATION YOU STUPID FUCK!!!! HE WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS THE SAME IRST THAT WAS FLYING ON THE FUCKING F-14.
DeleteSUCK A MASSIVE AIDS FILLED DICK HARLAN.
Everything that enters service is ''old''.
ReplyDeleteZumwalts are old.
By the time EMALS and other Ford class features start working properly, new tech will already be in testing phase.
Really, it takes at least 5 years to design and finalize the IOC product in Air Force.
Nevermind the unprecedent amount of software and high-tech voodoo that had to be done to get this thing working.
so what happens when a system is 20 years in development with an additional 10 before its fully operational? what does that make it?
Deletehow about ancient instead of old? how about obsolete before it enters service? how about a piece of trash that is being supported by propaganda and the ill informed?
yeah that about sums it up.
You can play your semantic games all you want.
DeleteLets take everyones adored ''stepchild'' ie F-22.
F-22 was in development for +15 years.
Its oxygen issue was fixed only two years ago.
It was a bug-ridden mess for 20 years since its inception.
Its ''outdated''.
Its computing power relies on mid-90s Cray supercomputer that my laptop in benchmarks would wipe the floor.
F-22 CIP, capable of performing 700 Million, up to 2 Billion instructions per second.
i7 2600K, capable of performing 128 Billion instructions per second.
i7 980X, capable of performing 147 Billion instructions per second.
i7 3960x, capable of performing 177 billion instructions per second.
Yet everyone daydreams (read:hallucinates) about restarting F-22 line - nevermind the fact that airframe would have to redesgined for fit as youd clearly want - modern radars,modern sensors,modern computing power.
De facto, look at all programs - everyone that entered service has been ''outdated''.
Its fucking idiotic,moronic to pretend that F-35 is some sort of ''unique'' case in this.
Zumwalts software - and lets not forget the ship is a sailing computer - and the requirements have been in works for almost a decade too.
Its architecture also relies on the computing power that was ''topnotch'' +5 years ago.
As much as I think Eldererr is a bit too tech leaning, he is right in this. It takes a long time to get things into service, which is why some areas of military tech lags behind civilian tech, especially computers. Look up Moore's Law. Minimum testing time for the military is about 5 years, which means that the civilian world would have computers 5-6 times faster once the item gets into service.
DeleteHardware though, it's not too bad, the F-22 frame can still be used since physics and the behaviour of light and radiation has not changed significantly since their discovery.
ReplyDeleteThe F-35 is just an expensive retarded Low observable airplane less survivable and capable than current fighters with great electronic countermeasures and next generation sensors.
To send the F-35 without irst missiles and gun, or with out the support of the Growlers and Super Hornets in to contested airfields, thinking they won't be detected by radars and intercepted by fighters with Irst sensors and long range irst missiles is delusional and suicidal.
That's why the term 5th or 6th Generation means nothing without considering the level of electronic countermeasures, believing there are "undetectable" and invisible airplanes.
Airbus Group - Eurofighter Typhoon Defensive Aids Sub System (DASS) Comb...:
http://youtu.be/uwXcSrMl-gI
NOWHERE TO HIDE Nato military Talios bomber targeting pod:
http://youtu.be/MjlRMJa80G8
Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet mission animation:
http://youtu.be/ONvDa0bdotA
Boeing's Growler: Staying off the Radar:
http://youtu.be/n-rL9MG79bA
F-16 Integrated Sensor Suite - Northrop Grumman:
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/jYdY3YFM8zo
from the last two test reports--
ReplyDelete2015
...fusion of information from own-ship sensors, as well as fusion of information from off-board sensors is still deficient. The Distributed Aperture System continues to exhibit high false-alarm rates and false target tracks, and poor stability performance, even in later versions of software.
2014
The DAS has displayed a high false alarm rate for missile detections during ownship and formation flare testing. The inability of the DAS to distinguish between flares and threat missiles makes the warning system ineffective and reduces pilot situational awareness.